Could you be deported?
I wrote a column on Saturday about getting a mortgage in the Philippines. In the comments on the column, there was a lot of talk about the debate over which is better, buying or renting property. One thing that was pointed out several times in the discussion is that as foreigners, we cannot own property in the Philippines.
Yes, there are ways to buy a house. The easiest is if you are married to a Filipina, you buy the house in her name. Foreigners can also buy Condominiums, but only a maximum of 40% of the entire Condo unit can be foreign owned. All in all, it is a good idea to keep in mind that as a foreigner, you simply cannot own real estate property in the Philippines. For years now, there has been discussion about changing the Constitution of the country to allow for foreign ownership of property, but for now it does not appear that such a change will be coming through any time soon.
As Dave Starr pointed out in the conversation, if you do buy, under the conditions I described previously, if there is a marital problem or something along those lines, you stand to lose your property.
I have another consideration, though. What if you were deported? Don’t blow this off, deportation of foreigners is something that happens every day. Did you know that you can be deported for simply getting angry and raising your voice at a Filipino? It’s true! Let’s say that you are in a restaurant and the service is poor. You loose your cool and get angry at the waitress. She can go to the Bureau of Immigration and file a complaint against you, and most likely, you will be deported! There is some kind of rule or law that says that you are not allowed to be disrespectful to a Filipino.
For me, this goes a little too far. I mean, everybody gets mad from time to time, and I feel that it should not be a deportable offense, however, this is the law, and you and I are not the ones who decide on it.
Here in Davao, there are often cases where foreigners are up for review for deportation. I know of one case where a British man in Davao was jailed for physical abuse of his girlfriend and he was nearly deported for that. Last year, a Korean was seen on the golf course yelling at his Filipino caddy, and he was deported for that. These cases seem to pop up in the news every few months or so.
What would you do if you owned a house, and ended up being deported?
For me, I feel that I have lived here long enough that I have learned to control my anger when it is present. I can also say that I have lost my cool in past years plenty of times, and was just lucky that I was not deported, or in some kind of trouble over such incidents. Now, I rarely get mad in public, though. However, you just never know what might happen!
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Hi Bob- Maybe if you own a house jointly with your spouse thats reason enough not to get yourself into a situation where your likely to be deported. Seriously though when you live in a foreign land you have no option but to respect the law and abide by it whether you are visiting or residing permanently. Next year, I like you will be living permanently and as a retiree I will be looking for a quiet life keeping my head down and smiling permanently to all in sundry. I would rather people thought of me as a nice old chap as opposed to a crabbit old bugger who embarasses his wife with his behaviour.
Hi Bob
I think no matter which country you are in, the law is the law, end of story. Whether you agree with them is another matter, but as Jim says you have to abide by them or you have no buisness being there.
When you visit or settle down in any country not knowing the law is not an excuse if you break it. Some countries have some strange laws, to outsiders, but like them or not you live by them.
For me, I’m investing a fair amount here and I’m absolutely confident that I will end my days here, other thoughts don’t enter my head. I have lived in some strange places with very strange laws and was always careful with them and I think if one is careful and lives within the law there should not be a problem. Marital problems, well, that’s a horse of a different colour.
Hi Jim - I believe that for all of us there is an adjustment period to go through when we move here. During that time, it’s easy to loose your temper and behave in a way that is embarrassing for your partner or family. I have seen it so many times, I believe that it is almost automatic! But, you are well grounded person who has visited here many times, so let’s hope that the adjustment is easy for you!
Hi Jack - Yes, I agree with you and Jim fully. As foreigners, we must be very careful to be certain that we follow it to the letter. If frustration and anger set in, just take a deep breath and swallow your pride as much as possible.
Marital problems…. well, that goes for a different blog!
he he he he
That should be interesting, I bet you will have to give that some prior thought to stay out of trouble.
Hi Bob, Jim and Jack, I totally agree with all of you. As you,Bob, know, my wife and I are connected to some Philippine authorities. Sometimes we are really wondering, how some foreigners “act here living in the Philippines”. Actually I was planning to write something entitled “The Dissenter”. Watch out for it next time in my blog.
Bob, thanks a lot for this informative post. And back to your topic: yeah, it’s very easy to be deported from the Philippines and being out on the blacklist.
Hi Klaus - I’m looking forward to reading “The Dissenter” because you and Rose have close connections particularly to the Bureau of Immigration, and I am certain that you’ll be sharing some good information!
Hi Bib & All I have heard nightmarish stories of men loosing their fortune in the philippines. With these laws it is becoming more clear as to how & why. A foreigner can be destroyed over mere jealousy. not to mention a bad marriage.
Glad to see this, Bob. I still see people continually using the term “if you own your house jointly with your wife” however. This is an issue because it does not happen. A house upon land under law becomes part of the land .. it is not severable from the land, like say a house trailer would be.
Therefore the owner of the land outright owns improvements on the land, period. It’s perfectly fine to buy a house/build a house in concert with your wife … we plan to build a house ourselves in the next couple years … but I will _not_ own it jointly. My wife will own it, and if I am a good boy I’ll be allowed to live there with her, period. The concept of joint ownership is so ingrained in most Westerner’s minds that they really need to realign there thinking. Under the terms of the current (1987) Philippine Constitution no foreigner may own land.
When people talk about buying a condominum, that’s fine too. Condos can be a ncie moneymaker under current conditions. But note what Bob says, he’s 100% correct, 60% or more of the sorporation that owns the building _must_ be Filipinos. When you “buy” a condo, you actually buy the air within the walls of your unit, and the rights of access that are in your contract. You do not “own” as much as a single wall or roof tile … the condominium corporation is the only “owner” of the real property.
The Philippines is controlled by an oligarchy of about 6 old-line familes and a couple new ones, the Sy’s and the Tan’s. If you shoot off your mouth to the wrong person … who may be a cousin several times removed from one of the “ruling families” you may indeed wind up on the outside looking in. Cousins and exstended familes are a”big thing” here.
The Philippines legal system is similar but not the same as the US … but in Immigration matters it doesn’t matter … actions by the BID (It’s no accident it is named the Bureau of Immigrations and Deportation) are administrative … you have no rights under the court system … the director may say “out” and you will go “out”, no questios.
Hate to make it sound so draconian, but I used to work with a guy here in the Philippines who was roundly criticized by a lot of expats for refusing to allow people to speak the truth about the Philippines. Funnily enough, though, I also find that many people get irritated when you _do_ speak the truth.
It’s just the way things are.
I know of a situation where an American man corresponded with a Filipina who worked in Singapore. They decided to meet in the Philippines and marry, and he promised to foot the bill, as is customary. She came home from Singapore, made all arrangements for the wedding, using her savings, knowing she would be repaid. The man arrived, the wedding took place. The man had brought no money with him. Turns out he is a Class A mooch, looking forward to living in the tropics being married to a Filipina with a job in Singapore. She was looking forward to not having to work overseas anymore, having a foreign husband. Neither got what they expected. She and her family are totally fed up with him.
He refuses to eat fish and demands chicken or pork wherever he goes. He goes to church events and then leaves early, but not before taking half of the food with him in containers. Before they were wise to him, he passed himself off as some sort of pastor, and they paid him an honorarium to preach… until they realized he was a really lousy preacher, and no pastor at all. He got really mad when they said he would not be preaching anymore and started gossiping about the pastor, getting people to takes sides with him. He has made himself odious to the whole community and they are looking into seeing if they can get him deported, and I don’t blame them.
Hi Bob and to all of you, in all these special matters I forward my friends to our lawyer, who is really an expert. One thing is very important: if YOU PLAN TO MARRY the best for you and your coming Filipina wife is to make a “pre marriage contract”. But as I said, contact your (or our) lawyer, before you get married. As in every law global there are exemptions…
Americanlola. Have you heard the one about the priest that couldn’t fart when standing on his head.
Hi Guy - There is an old story… do you know how to make a small fortune in the Philippines? The answer - come here with a large fortune!
What you say is very true.
Hi Dave Starr - That guy you mention in the last paragraph… I think I know who that is! He doesn’t like me much either…..
Hi AmericanLola - I think you told me of that guy before! They didn’t chase him away yet?
Hi Klaus - A pre-nuptial agreement can be a good thing if you have assets to protect. In my case, I didn’t have one, because Feyma and I were both fairly young when we married, and neither of us had much to protect at the time.
Hi Guy - Huh?
Hi Bob - While my asawa owns the land where the family house resides and where we’re building a vacation bungalow, my name appears on the deed as the spouse, with survivor benefits of ownership if my wife were to pass away. I was told by our mayor (a cousin) that my ownership of real estate in this manner is perfectly legal (not large; much less than a hectare). Barangay Kapitan agrees/confirms. I certainly won’t look a gift horse in the mouth!
BTW - picked up some Davao mangos at the market in Laoag and must agree that they are sweet and delicious. Too bad the local mangos aren’t ready until April - can’t make a comparison!
Hi Paul - There is one thing that the Mayor and Barangay Captain failed to mention to you on the land ownership. Yes, you can inherit, but only if you have legal residency in the Philippines, and have lived here for over 5 years. This does not mean you are living here on a tourist visa or balikbayan visa. You must be here 5 continuous years with a Resident Visa, or else you cannot inherit that land. Remember also, land ownership is not decided by a City or Town Mayor.
Glad you enjoyed some Davao Mangoes! Most fruits down here are available year-round due to our climate which remains pretty constant year round.
Hi All - This thread has taken on more of a theme of a land ownership discussion. That’s OK, but I would also like to hear your views on the deportation laws here. How do you feel about the fact that you can be deported and blacklisted for doing nothing more than getting angry at somebody?
Bob - Failed to mention the residency part: you are so correct.
Please don’t deport me!
Bob&All Refer to #8
Hi Guy- It astounds me how much emphasis is placed on bad marriages and mistrust. If this exists in the mind of the husband/foreigner from the outset its little wonder things go wrong when they come to live in the Philippines. Marriage is a partnership its not about mine and hers is about “Ours” sharing and caring.
If money is the most important thing in ones life it surely is the root of all evil.
Maybe unhappiness is at the core of how one behaves and the more you are unhappy the worse you are likely to behave and therefore the risk of being reported to the authorites increases as id your chances of deortation.
Appologies is* deportation*
Hi Paul - Deportation decisions are out of my hands… but if they let me decide the issue, I’d let you stay!
Thread drift is OK, though…. I just wanted to get everybody’s take on the deportation issue too.
Hi Guy - Yeah, thanks, I did note that your comment was more along the lines that I was hoping to hear… but a lot of others drifted off to yesterday’s topic!
Hi Jim - I think that a lot of the people leaving these type of comments have been married for a much shorter term than you or I. I don’t recall how many years you’ve been married, but I think you have me beat, and Feyma and I have over 17 years under our collective belt. I think that for a shorter term marriage, there is more doubt, and concern on these type of issues. I’m like you, though… I have no fear of marital problems and such.
Bob- 25 Don’t tell anybody promise !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Jim - your secret is safe with me!
Hi Jim I overheard you tell Bob you have been married for 25 YES DID IHEAR 25YEARS . But do not worry i will not tell anyone.
Hi Frank- Thanks for that
Hi to all,
It’s maybe a bit of the topic but am wondering if there is any statistics in Phil. about stability on marriages of foreigners to much younger filipina wife. Will they wait mostly till he dies… or she might leave (or deport him) before? hahaha…. Just wondering if it happens as often as here.
Here in North America I see lots of divorces if the filipino wife is younger as much as 25 or more years then her hubby.
I’d guess that over there a husband will have more of a financial control then here, so that would keep the marriage more stable.
Unless he buys a house and then she might get some ideas… if he is a much older guy and not nice enough… hahahaa….
Hi ted - I know of no hard statistics on this matter. I personally feel, though, that the divorce rates are lower for such couples than the population at large. If you are talking about marriages of people who live here… well, divorce is illegal here, so that puts a bit of a lid on it. Annulment takes a long time too…
Bob,
Very interesting post. I didn’t realize the law was so over-reaching (my words, not anybody else’s). I would find such deportation laws very hard to stomach. It’s one thing to commit crimes and violations of civil law and be deported (good riddance, I say), it’s another to offend another individual in a moment of passion and lose everything as a result. In fact, this law seems so over-broad as to be an insult to Filipinos themselves. It almost seems to assume that an individual Filipino cannot defend him (or herself) against an insult.
I would expect my country to deliver the mail, help me defend my private property, provide for national defense, provide good roads and infrastructure and respect my personal freedoms as a citizen, but never to protect me from a personal insult. Since I’m the judge of what I find insulting, I could not fathom how the Government could know whether I’m truly serious or have dark motives. If it’s simply a matter of the ‘pinoy is always right, where a foreigner is concerned, in these matters’, then it borders on outright xenophobia. And as much as a politian can make political hay with it, I would guess it is somewhat destructive to any society which goes down that road.
I do think (from personal experience) that Filipinos are very open and warm and few would pursue deportation except in extreme cases, but I have to say that I would, as a matter of principle, be very reluctant to commit to a society that legislates matters that amount to personal interaction and good manners, no matter how well meaning they are.
Anyway, a very interesting revelation here!
Hi RichardInSC - In general, Filipinos are very sensitive! If you even raise your voice slightly at them, you may lose their friendship for life! Honestly, it is that pronounced. Another trait of many people here is that they do depend on the Government to manage nearly every aspect of life. One of my mantras in the States is that the less the Government gets involved in any aspect of life, the better it is. That is completely the opposite here. Almost nothing gets done here if the government doesn’t do it, or mandate it. I believe that these traits show why the deportation situation is as I describe.
Bob that sounds like the democratic party here in the US.
Hi Bobby -
I’m not even going there!
>> it borders on outright xenophobia
Do you not read the textbooks of the RP schools? They teach the children that the local problems are not the result of Filipino culture, they are they are the result of exploitation by foreigners. This is taught even in the best schools.
Consider yourself lucky if you get deported. In previous centuries, there were widespread pogroms and massacres of chinese, whenever the malayans convinced themselves that the “evil foreigners” were the cause of epidemics.
Deportation doesn’t sound good for a guy married to a filipina so you better be a good boy! Some guys need a little extra help to be good.I am married to a filipina from a little village up the coast from calbayog on Samar island. The guys there do quite a bit of partying day and night, so confrontations seem quite possible! They all have been really nice people though. I never have been treated so well as I have been treated there. My wife seems to be the ornery one of the bunch.
Hi John - Better not get your wife angry! She, being the ornery one in the bunch could cause you a world of hurt!
Bob,
I’m a Filipina living here in the US. the deportation of foreigner for petty things is so ridiculous.
I’ve seen a lot of Filipino who are very disrespecful to American or foreigners here in the US. One thing i can’t stand and I am ashamed of is that Filipino nurses are very nosy and they talk behind your back and just so very selfish.
Hi vernalee - Well…. don’t feel too bad about the Filipino Nurses in the States! I can say for sure that I had some really good care from Filipino Nurses there in the past, and I am sure that the majority of them are good and caring people.
Good luck to you, I hope you enjoy living in the States.
ted said:
Hi to all,
It’s maybe a bit of the topic but am wondering if there is any statistics in Phil. about stability on marriages of foreigners to much younger filipina wife. Will they wait mostly till he dies… or she might leave (or deport him) before? hahaha…. Just wondering if it happens as often as here.
Here in North America
—————————-
you left one out Ted and that is if she gets you killed!
2 years ago i heard a story of an American deported i cannot remember his name. What he did was jump a que in a bank in Davao. A filipina who was behind him complained and he raised his voice to her, can’t remember what he actually said. Turns out she was a high powered lawyer and two weeks later had him deported.
At the end of the day we are “Aliens” i hate this term but thats what we are. You put a foot wrong or get on the wrong side of someone or if someone just takes a disliking to you they can get you out.
Im sure some of you remember two years back where an American guy on a plane tapped a filipina stewardess on a plane on the back of her head with a rolled up newspaper claiming she was not helping him with his luggage or something stupid and it was witnessesed by a politician and he was deported i think! or they tried to deport him. There was a big rumpass about it.
Sometimes when im there i find myself being over polite which i should not have to be really. i mean im a very meak, mild and easy going person anyway and would not say boo to a goose, but i always feel that in some way i have to be over appeasing to the point of crawling.
When i think how filipinos are treated in Britain where they can do anything a Brit does. (Imigrants in the UK are even treated better than nautralborn citizens) I mean they can own land, houses, and businesses with out even a eyebrow raised. I find some laws in the Philippines archacic in the extreme they should really enter the 21st century. They have a chance now to get the Philippines back on the map as GMA is doing a good job economic wise. Open the country up to investors, they are so scarred that foreigners will come in and buy up all their land. They can just put a cap on it say 1000 sq m per foreigner or something. They should really wake up to how the rest of the world treat foreigners. As i see it as a previous poster said the country is run by a few very wealthy families and the catholic church who want to see the poor kept poor. IMO
I will get off my soap box now hehe
Hi Graham - The things you say about deportation and laws here pretty much mirror my feelings. Spot on.
Hi Bob
I remembered your quote:
” Another trait of many people here is that they do depend on the Government to manage nearly every aspect of life. One of my mantras in the States is that the less the Government gets involved in any aspect of life, the better it is. That is completely the opposite here. Almost nothing gets done here if the government doesn’t do it, or mandate it.”
The first thing that went through my mind was “libertarianism”. I sort of remember you saying you were swaying towards that.
The 2nd thing that I thought was “feudalism”. The philippines is stuck in a feudal state for centuries now. This pretty much explains a lot of the problems that you mentioned in that quote. Even the informal standards of deporting a foreign national is partly based on this.
what is feudalism? I don’t want to go into that. But I think this article pretty much explains that word as well as the frustrations many you and your readers have written about.
http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/columns/view/20071220-107927/Feudal
I hope I didn’t go too off topic here.
The freedom of speech that we know of in the US can be slander in the Philippines. As a rule if you could not say a good word just remain silent. I don’t believe you can get deported just by cussing at an ordinary Filipino. It is the Filipino that occupies a position of power that you have to avoid. If an ordinary Filipino disrespects them. A foreigner might just get deported for saying the wrong words to them while an ordinary Filipino can get mauled by the bodyguards or worst shot dead. Filipinos usually can recognize them and just keep distance from them. This is just a fact of life there.
Hi macky - rather than calling the Philippines “feudal” I personally would prefer to say that it is “still developing” or something along those lines. Puts a little bit of a softer touch on it, right? Pakikisama in action!
Hi Bobby - Actually, you can indeed be deported for cussing a normal Filipino, if they decide to go down and file charges on it. But, you are right that it will happen more often with more powerful Filipinos.
Hello Mr Bob Martin,
If you may allow, I have to point out a correction on your article. A foreigner can own an entire condominium unit not just 40% of it. The 40% limitation is applied to the whole condominium corporation. That is, no single foreigner can take beyond 40% shares in a condominium corporation.
I wrote some interesting real estate articles for the foreigner in the Philippines. Here is the link:
http://www.realestatephilippines101.com/articles/category/foreigners-guide/
Hope you enjoy reading. And I think Jack is right. Let the Philippines be the Philippines.
Hi Carlos - Yeah, that is what I said! I think there was some misinterpretation on the way I wrote it. What I meant is that only 40% of the entire condo building can be foreign owned. In other words a foreigner can own 100% of his single unit, but only 40% of the units can be foreign owned. I think we are saying the same thing here.
Thanks for dropping by and leaving your comment! I am going to check out your site now!
Yea it is a bit worrisome about being able to deport you for anything real or even imagined. I had a Philippino get mad at me over a misunderstanding. I couldn’t figure out what he got mad about till much later. I did explain later that it was a misunderstanding but he had apparently already gotten over it or figured it out himself. What if he hadn’t and decided to have me deported?
Also what if you pay a lease or rent up front and the landlord decides they want to run you off and rent to someone else so they just claim you insulted them? Its too easy to abuse this.
On the land ownership issue. I can understand Philippinos not wanting foreigners to own all their land especially farmland. You can’t provide for your people if someone else (even your own government like in the US) owns most of the land.
I would suggest not allowing foreigners to own the best farmland. For example the land redistribution act only applies to land with less then 18 percent grade if I understand correctly so make that off limits. Maybe even make limits on other land to a percentage of the local area. But this thing not being able to own land at all hurts them more than it helps.
At the very least their should be business districts that allow foreign ownership and being able to own at least one house of your choosing. Though I personally would like to and plan to through my son, own some marginal farm land for the future security of my family. Just my 2 cents.
Hi John H - Yes, the possibility of such an easy deportation is sometimes worrisome.
Hello Bob,
Nice article but truly its not that easy to get deported or put on hold departure for insulting a typical person or even being arrested for a crime. Granted if you insulted someone who belonged to the powers that be you could get deported but if just a common citizen they in all probability wouldnt have the connections nor even the idea to have person deported and even if they did theyll most likley achieve no results. I know of a situation where a expat was living in Mindanao with many underaged girls and was basically running a brothel, the barangay capitan and many neighbors complained to BI but where told the BI had no money to deport anyone. This isnt true as BI doesnt pay the aifare for ppl they deem need deported but is rather an example of the government non-action that the typical filipino would recieve.
Also, both hold departure and deportations require actions and proceedings which take time, time a person can use to leave on their own. I noticed it a common extortion tactic for less than honest filipinos to tell foreigner theyd file a case against them so they cant go home. These people dont realize that having a case filed doesnt stop a person from leaving a country and 90% of time even if case is filed no hold departure will be issued as the police and even to some extent the fiscals and Attys dont understand immigration laws so never request hold departure proceedings to be started. If started they are done in such a way that person knows its being done and the procceedings take long enough that person can simply leave. I know many foreign nationals who have faced quite serrious charges and more than a few who left during the proceedings rather than risk the philippine justice system but have met only one person on hold departure and none whop where deported, the guy that couldnt leave due to hold departue was facing white slavery charges and simply just didnt have the resources to leave before hold departure was issued.
Justin
Hi Justin - Insulting a Filipino who is not a “big wheel” can still result in deportation. I know, because I’ve seen it happen. It is not as likely, but it can indeed happen, and it does happen.
Hello Again,
Regarding the land ownership issues. It makes sense to me because if not for the laws nothing would stop one of the Philippines wealthy but highly populated neighbor nations from comming over and buying all the land to use to grow food for their own masses. This would seemingly pose a real problem as China is highly populated yet doesnt have ability to produce enough rice domestically to feed its populace without importing.
Hi Justin - Can’t say I agree with you, but we are all entitled to our own opinion.
Hi Bob! The whole idea of living in and buying a place in a foreign country is scary. I am building a place on Samar for my wife and I. I think its a risky deal all the way around and anybody that does it is really gutsy. I think most people wouldn’t do something like this, but if they do do it they probably are not the type of people that will worry about getting deported. The information you share is always appreciated. I enjoy your insight and wisdom very much Bob!
Hi John - I think that for Americans, living in a foreign country can be scary. For other nationalities, though, that is not necessarily true. For example, from what I see, the British are very comfortable with living overseas. Over the decades and even centuries, Brits have lived in other countries, so it is just a normal thing for them. Americans, on the other hand, don’t live abroad too much. I find it OK, though, not too scary at all.
Hi Bob - (This is a bit controversial) To be frank, I am embarrassed for a country that calls itself a Democracy when it truly is not as it pertains to foreigners. Filipinos who come to the USA are treated with respect and live with the same laws as 300 million other Americans and immigrants. It is not a pleasant feeling to have to walk on your tippy toes while living here for fear of hurting someones feelings. It’s the price you pay to live in the Philippines. I still love it here and hold back on my temper but sometimes it is hard with so much ignorance and stupidity here with many of the people you might encounter. Patience can wear thin. A good friend of mine was held for 51 days on false charges before they let him go. Imagine losing 51 days of your life not to mention the stress he had to endure. And imagine as you say to build a house and then possibly be deported even by your own wife as has happened many times so the wife gets everything including joint bank accounts. A few of my friends buy using corporations so this can be avoided. The point is we as foreigners are simply long term guests with absolutely no, none, zero rights. This is something we all must truly understand and learn to live with if we are to stay here in the Philippines. It could even happen to you Bob if someone had it out for you. It may not succeed but will coast you millions of pesos in bribes. Amazing huh!
Hi Steven - Regarding the whole democracy issue, I have some really strong opinions on that, but I am going to choose not to share them, because some of my comments on that might be off limits for a foreigner here. I hope you understand.
When you say “it could even happen to you, Bob” - I totally agree. If I ever implied that I didn’t think it could happen to me, I was wrong, and never had any intention of saying anything like that. I am no less susceptible to that than anybody else.
Hello Bob,
I think that regarding the land ownership because China is a wealthy nation with a huge population that relys heavily on rice imports and has shown interest in the Philippines in the past in regards to developing rice lands. I think it was in 97 that a Chinese firm had offered to lease 1million hectares from the Philippiner government for rice land productiopn, it would have been a nearly 4billion dollar investment plus provided numerous jobs. If a company would shoulder this risk in regards to leasing Philippine land even in light of the philippine lease laws it would seemingly be suffieciant to say that if foreign land ownership was allowed that many companys would buy and start what could easily become a land rush. Now with companys lokking at 1 million hectares its sufficiant to say it would take very many companys to devour all the land in the islands as 1million hectares alone is a land area of 10,000 square kilometers which is easily put into perspective by looking at the fact that the land area of Davao city is only 2,443km2, CDO is only 500km2 , Surigao City is only 245km2, ETC ETC ETC. Granted theyd in all probabilty be developing hinterland areas and not citys but even that would cause problems by eliminating the availabilty of far flung lands to the average pinoys who due to Philippine land prices are pretty much allready confined to the purchase of lands in the more remote areas. Would likley cause a real problem . Not to mention it could likley also contribute to the rapid growth of the various rebel groups as such situation could quite easily be manilpulated and used very effectively for propagandist recruitment purposes.
Some may say that the DAR and the CARP regulations could keep this under controll but in all honesty CARP is rather without teeth due to the loopholes. I meen how long would it take multinational companys and even foreign sovereign nations to figure out the loopholes. In the end this could pose a threat to Philippine sovereignty.
Just my oppinion but probally not much to worry about as it wouldnt be to the benifit of the spanish land grant familys who own most the nations land and pretty much call the shots as would be in their best interest kep controll over their lands and the nations economy as thats how they maintain controll of the populace and the government.
Justin
Hi Justin - The way I look at it is this… right now, the Philippines is not even self-sufficient in the area of rice. A lot of rice is imported from Thailand and Vietnam. If the Chinese could come here and grow rice to export to China, that would be a net plus for the country anyway, creating jobs, bringing in money from China, etc.
Hello Bob,
Thats a interesting way to look at it and I agree about the Philippines depending heavily on Vietnamese and Thai rice, also some of the alledged local rice ppl buy is simply re-sacked NFA rice, including some that comes from the formentioned countrys. I once had a NBI director in Butuan tell me that 60% of the premium rice for sell at that time in the city where just re-sacked rice. I cant say it came as a surprise though as just few nights before I had a filipino taklk to me about the proffits that could be earned through re-sacking rice as he’d been doing it himself.
However, Despite the Jobs and etc that such investments would bring in if foreign land ownership should be allowed I still think its not good because in my oppinion no investment is worth the possibility of effecting national soveriegnty. I meen with the ammounts of investments, that would bring with it even more corruption, the corruption would give these foreign investors the ability to dictate policy and with that could also open the nation up to rampant exploitation of the populace at foreign hands. Granted exploitation allready exist in the Philippines just as it exist in every society throughout are earth but the idea of foreign exploitation of a soveriegn nation is especially bad. Che Guavera possibly put it best when he said
“The inflow of capital from the developed countries is the prerequisite for the establishment of economic dependence. This inflow takes various forms: loans granted on onerous terms; investments that place a given country in the power of the investors; almost total technological subordination of the dependent country to the developed country; control of a country’s foreign trade by the big international monopolies; and in extreme cases, the use of force as an economic weapon in support of the other forms of exploitation. ”
Justin
Hi Justin - I personally do not believe that land ownership would have any impact on national sovereignty. If that were the case, many (most) first world nations would have lost sovereignty long ago.
Hello Bob,
Many 1st world nations nations as well as 3rd world nations have lost pieces of their national sovereignty through the acceptance of foreign loans and investments. Its my oppinion that anytime a foreign nation must be taken into consideration when considering policy that thats a sign of lost sovereignty as a nations purpose is to protect and serve the interest of its own populace and not to act in the best interest of a foriegn powers to who they are indebted to rather the debts be in monitary form or other.
Have you noticed how in many Philippine familys theres a OFW who almost signle handedly supports the family through their remitances and how that person regardless of rather they are older or younger often gains a high level of influence over the family that theyd in all probabilty otherwise not have if not for their monitary support? Its in my oppinion the same thing when nations are involved with the diffrence being the stakes are much higher due to the ammounts involved being much larger and the strings attached much thicker although at times less transparent.
Out of curiosity, Have you ever read the NDF’s proposed plans on these topic? Im in no way a supporter of their ideologys but some of the NDF’s plans make good sense in the way that they apply to developing nations. I think theyd not work in long run as outside influences would apply pressures but in theory they are very interesting.
Merry Christmas ,
Justin
Hi Justin - No, I have not read the NDF report. I will say, though, if the criteria for having lost sovereignty is that a country must consider it’s actions based on who it owe’s money to, and such, then the Philippines has long since lost all sovereignty.
Interesting thread. As a ‘foreigner’ living and working out of Cebu - mainly risk mitigation - I have come accross a number of instances against clients, friends and even myself where the threat of deportation has been raised.
Justin is smack on when even if a small dispute a Filipino will for the gain of a few thousand peso will threaten a foreigner with deportation or estoppel on travel.
The truth is that this threat of deportation is real.
1. Technically it is not that simple to be deported, however, with corruption and the arrogance that accompanies the middle and upper classes the world over the system is subject to wholesale abuse.
2. The source of most problems is not actually events such as dissing the ultra-nationalism of the Filipinos by not standing for the national anthem - I enjoy raising a clenched fist whilst standing and not covering the heart! but I still stand - or disputing a small sum etc - the problem lies quite often with the family of the partner! Most of the cases of threat of deportation, extortion, complaint etc. stem from family members of the partner who eye a fortune by doing over a foreigner (and dont forget the ulterior motives of the wife! and conspiracy with their family!).
3. The game has been played for decades and they are very good at it!
So what to do when confronted by this situation?
1. keep calm.
2. talk to friends for moral support/advice.
3. get a lawyer.
4. stay somewhere safe and out of the locale (depending on circumstance of who is trying to @##$ you). No investment nor pride is worth your safety. Get to Cebu etc for some r&r and consider to file a case against your accuser there!
5. talk through a lawyer or through an agent with the ACO at your immigration office.
6. consider striking back with a TRO and a law suit - defamation, exemplary damages etc… Use the law against the system - it has to be seen to work even if it doesnt! protest your rights under the law!
7. get someone to mediate, preferably let the lawyers do that.
Certain facts of the case.
The BI has no power to deport without a court order (if you are fighting a judge you can still fight back!)
Fight the court order!
You are not feterred to travel in any way whatsoever by a case being filed against you in the BI or with the Bgay etc. They have to get a stop order against you which again requires a court order. The BI can only place you on record and refuse you a clearance if the case merits it. In that case go through Manila Airport! Do not get a connecting flight etc.
What can be done?
I like the idea raised here for a seperate collumn in this blog of examples of abuse against foreigners (and vice versa) to shame the authorities into acting.
Pressure your local area for a ‘foreigner’ relations department. A one stop liaison officer for foreigners to contact in the time of need. I have heard of such being established in southern Mindanao with some success.
Remember the Philippines is economically bankrupt (as with the world system) and they rely on remittances and the foreign investment of you guys to survive.
The case in the south i mention arose after a major foreign investment by a government was cancelled for that area when the originator of the investment suffered at the hands of unscrupulous individuals who attempted an extortion against him and his wife. They had already set up many ngo programmes etc. the local government got pissed at that!
We have economic power - despite the arrogance of the middle and ruling class - use it. With a wall of shame they may start to tread a bit more carefully. Also we will have a resource for the newbies to learn from.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed!
In my estimation 90% of foreigners suffer one or more bad experiences when ‘investing’ in the Philippines.
I personally know that the authorities (warlords etc) are aware of the problem and are worried. I can give one example. I was stayng in Mindanao at a hotel meeting up with a politico buddy in the regional government. I had met a foreigner newly married from Europe and first time in Philippines. There was some commotion at their tables and he came over white as a sheet. Someone texted that a bomb would explode in the hotel and he would die!
15 minutes later the police arrive - in two minutes the politico’s forces were already there searchiing the hotel. We calmed him down and said not to worry. It transpired it was his wife’s sister who made the threat - angry at not being invited to their banquet!
He swore never to come back and left for Cebu the next day - a wealthy man who had ideas on investments etc. Lost forever as a source of investment. My politico friend at witnessing this immediately arranged a meeting with the governor to address the problem.
I will post some examples of abuse I have come accross - funny cases in the part - extreme in others. Please see fit to add them to a wall of shame!
Hi Kumander - Much of what you say, I agree with. However, based on what you write, you seem to have a militant side (along with your pen name). Doing things like “getting in their face” “shaming them” etc. is a recipe for quick deportation or other problems for a foreigner. It’s best to be nice, keep a relatively low profile, etc., in my opinion.
A guy I met a couple of years ago had rented a nice house for 6 months whilst he arranged to buy a house for his new wife. A few months later whilst away on business in his home country he let his wife make the arrangements to move out. Upon returning he sought the return of his deposit. The landlord refused citing damage to the property. There was of course none. The landlord agreed to repay.
Aftre the months dragged by the guy politely enquired a few times as to when the small amount would be repaid. Nothing was heard. He went to the landlord’s house personally - not there - and left a message.
The next day, his wife - in tears - came to him. “Hon we have to leave, the landlord contacted my mother and they are having you deported for tresspass and harrassement.”
Frightened at this prospect and with a family upset and in laws deathly worried the guy contaced a lawyer he knew.
The money was repaid and the landlord blottered.
The amount of money that was worth all the upset? P3,500.00!
Thanx Bob - am a big fan of the site. This is the only thread that i have been provoked to answer to. A few things happened to friends of mine in your neck of the woods last year that made me somewhat angry.
My point was in reference to a couple that did not stand for the anthem - a few years ago - in Subic if i remember. They were a national scandal for not standing for the anthem. threats of deportation etc. At least i stand!
A balance has to be drawn and I agree keep it quiet is best. But in many ways you can voice dissent even if not so discretely. I can also assure you that I am not alone when making that jesture in public!
Another case i remember - public one - was the case of the gentleman who spoke about corruption in the Philippines. A trappo responded demanding his deportation for insulting the Philippines.
The trappo said and i paraphrase… ‘ Foreigners cannot talk this way and insult our country even though corruption is a major problem here.’!
I will remember that one till i die.
Hi Kumander - When you mentioned about the National Anthem, I thought you were talking about me! You see, about 6 to 7 years ago, Feyma and I got into trouble at the SM Cinema here in Davao. We were involved in a discussion, waiting for the movie to start. The lights were on, and there were few people there. We didn’t realize that they started playing the National Anthem, we just weren’t paying attention. Some of the theater management came to us and scolded us, threatened to kick us out! We honestly didn’t know we had done anything wrong. When Feyma was a child, her parents did not allow her to go to the movies. In the States, I had never heard of the National Anthem being played at the theater, so neither of us expected to hear it!
Bob: We’ve all heard the stories, and I have a suggestion for foreigners living here… It relates to your last SIR article: Using a “go-between”. One of the reasons we are living where we are is that our “landlord” is a long-term friend of Rebecca’s: over 20 years. Having someone who knows the ins and outs of how things get done here is invaluable. If someone can intervene on your behalf in the case of conflict, it is far less likely to escalate to the point of losing face or a shouting match. Sophie got involved in an overcharging situation, where my gut would have been to simply tell the person to go get ******. Instead, I kept my mouth shut, pulled out a little note pad, wrote down some particulars, and called Sophie… She handled it. Problem solved. Having a relative, friend, business contact, or someone else who is trustworthy to intervene is a huge help, not just in disputes, but in getting things done.
I also am well aware that in these dispute cases, I let Rebecca do the talking… We got into a dispute with a taxi driver here. He made an outside threat that he was NBI and that my legality could be questioned (At this point, I had said nothing… just stood their looking stupid). Becky can make him lose face (Boy, did she ever!), but I cannot. The best thing for foreigners to do is to keep their mouths shut and deal with it later. My government connections run very high here, but there are limits. Ultimately, despite marriage, or whatever, I am a foreigner here and have to play by the same rules as everyone else. Yes, you can outspend someone, and that tactic may work (Though, what if the other person has nothing to lose, eh?), but this is ultimately not your country, and it can get very, very expensive very quickly to defend against some stupidity that didn’t need to happen.
I met someone on my flight home last week who was meeting his wife-to-be for the first time. He was talking about very grandiose business and house plans, and, after listening to him for around 1/2 hour, I finally asked him, “How well do you really know her? Have you been to the RP before?” He had never visited and knew her from 6 months on the Internet. I told him, “Hey Bud, I wish you luck, and I hope things work out, but I think you have no earthly idea what you are getting yourself into.” I then referred him to LiP and told him to read up a bit.
Hi John Miele - I agree with you fully - it’s best, as a foreigner, to just keep your mouth shut and let your wife deal with it. That said, I must admit that I don’t always follow my advice, it can be difficult to bite my tongue too hard!
Ha ha.. .that guy on the flight is so typical!
I remember when I was like that too! 
To back up the point on mediation - but with strength!
A friend of mine came over after a harrowing experience in your area.
He met a girl - not internet - rare I know - fell in love etc. She began behaving erratically, causing an argument at nite and storming out. One nite and very late - she smashed some things and left. Worried about the lateness etc he went after her. After a screaming and hitting (her on him) session in the street he left her and went to a bar.
The next day the girl’s brother demanded to see him. Demanded a substantial amount of money for hospitalisation etc. and showed a RECEIPT from a doctor; if not he would be arrested.
He got out!
Text demands for payment followed - death threats etc. the most vile racism etc.
I forwarded them to a friend who followed up.
A corrupt doctor, the brother and another with the girl concocted it all. The other turned out to be the husband. he was prostituting her out to get the guy. A moral exists here - dont fall for a girl on the internet or the street and never in a bar!
My friend had a discrete chat with these guys - the vile messages and threats stopped a case was put with no follow up to be done.
That mediation worked.
My friend has returned and is enjoying life with a certain amount of caution but safe and secure and a lesson learnt - he was disuaded to pursue the return of some P50,000.00 in cash and gifts.
That was the counterplay along with the threat of prosecution.
Th epoint being is that in simple disputes it is okay to have family sort the problem. Where the family is not strong or the opponent stronger, the state are required to intervene whether a lawyer or senior police. With the lower level police etc. well thats a different matter…
A guy i know - my area not yours and he wont mind retelling the story - intervened when an ex came to his house drunk and with a knife. The ex aparantly tried to stab the guy and his girl and then went amok with the neighbors. fearing for everyones saftey he grappled the girl to the ground got the knife and she was restrained .
When everyone went to the police station the guy was charged with assaulting the ex! Go figure! it was only when the case went higher up that the nonsense was stopped and the junior officer repremanded!
Hi Kumander - Very interesting stories! It certainly pays for any foreigner here to be careful in his actions!
Bob just out of curiosity isn’t your site hosted in the USA and if I am not mistaken doesn’t that means that any and all comments posted here regardless of where they originated from cannot be considered libelous in the Philippines even if the poster wrote them in the Philippines.
For example, there is a very popular Philippine blog site of a guy (his name alludes me) that mercilessly slams the upper society and governmental people of the Philippines. He has hundreds of thousands of visitors monthly and it is doubtful there is any liability to him or his posters many of course living and posting from the Philippines. No sense tempting fate but, it does diminish a site like yours which only offers a pretty picture of a place with lots of problems like so many countries. Any chance you can cover some harder issues that some newbies may not be aware of and are in for a rude awakening. Your SIR articles were great.
Hi Steven - My server indeed is in the States. Unfortunately, under Philippine law, that is not much protection. As a matter of fact, even with my server in the States I can even get deported, sued, or put in jail for things that you say. Amazing, huh? I know a guy that has been through this, so there is not any doubt in my mind about it.
If you think that I only offer a pretty picture, you need to dig into the archives a bit more. I used to have people mad at me because of too much doom and gloom. You can’t please everybody… either I’m too gloomy, or too much of a pretty picture… even on the same post!
I call ‘em as I see ‘em. Sometimes I try to mince my words a bit, but if you read what I say, you will get my message.
Kumander,
I enjoyed reading your stories as they are so typical of how situations can p[lay out in the Philippines. In my past pre AA days (Im now 3yrs sober) I was a bit of a hellion and had some problems as a result both of my on and not of my own making. Anyway, Was threatened with deportation several times but to be honest it was a bit funny to me as I knew how the laws worked and could see the people where simply talking BS. I tell you some of the stories.
Once got drunk and backed into a car that belonged to a fellow named Nester Burgos. Anyway, I went home and next day we met at the police station traffic office and he appeared with a estimate of 150tphp to fix his old junky car that wasnt even worth that price. Also, He stated I also owed him 1500php per day for lost wages as he used his car to deliver eggs, how funny. At that point he proceeded to get me angry by telling me if I didnt pay him hed file a case against me so I couldnt leave. I stayed nice but knew it was BS as just fling a case doesnt equate to a hold departure. I told him to go ahead and file a case and Id do likewise and wed both pay acceptance fees and Id drag the case out so long hed go broke.
At that point I told him to file a case and left the police station and went home. Next day he called and asked if we can again meet at police station. I agreed and once there he started again demanding money. I told him Id get three estimates and would pay the lesser of the three and the estimates would come from shops of my choice. I then went to two shops and then to my friends shop and lowest estimate was 4.5tphp. I told the fellow Id pay him 5.5tphp so hed earn 1tphp for his trouble going without a car.
Afterwards fellow was still driving the wrecked car and come to find out he had made a deal with a corrupt policeman to try to extort money out of me which theyd plan to half with each other. In end it didnt work since I knew the law and stood my ground but just the same the policeman still wanted his half the money which the fellow had to give him at the result of no longer having the needed aount of cash to fix his car.
I think it good to stand your ground and if possible handle your own issues as you will undoubtedly try harder to get favorable results than would a go between who has no incentive as they are negotiating using your cash.
Justin
Another time was in a bar with a Irishman. The waitor delivered the check and tried to charge us for all kinds of drinks and such we never ordered. They charged us for ladys drinks even though we specifically told them we wanted to not be bothered by their ladys nor had any desire to purchase the ladys any drinks but on checks we somehow had many ladys drinks on the check together with our own drinks. I told waitor we didnt order it and wherent paying for it and he proceeded to say we are and cant do anything about it. At that point the irish guy lost his temper and stated he had a gun in the car and he was going to get it, he had no gun even. At that point we got rushed by nearly everyone ion the bar and I ended up putting 4 people in the hospital including one who lost his euyesight. During fight a cop came in to break it up and came behind me. I didnt know he was a cop and turned around to hit him but stopped once I saw the uniform. I didnt hit him or anything though.
We then where told to drive ourselves to the police station and where approached by the cop from the bar and the chief inspector. The cop from bar say he going to file case unless we gave him money and asked us for 40tphp as he said his various girlfriends had school tuition do and he needed cash. Anyway just put him off and went home.
The next day it got even more interesting as the owner of bar had a fiscal named Fiscal Abugo contact us and arrange a meeting at anotyher bar to discuss the situation. The entire thing seemed fishy but just the same we went anyway and to no surprise they demanded money also in the sum of another 50tphp. We left and the irishmans aunt had the idea to see if there was really a case filed. The outcome was there was a case filed but it was with abnother fiscal and not Abugo. I guess there plan was to run a hustle on us and collect money from us using the scammer fiscal as well as then try to collect more using the legitimate fiscal, im unsure though truly what their plan was. We then proceeded to other fiscal and paid 5tphp to have case dismissed outrightly with the bar owner and the hospitalized ppl getting nothing.
We still had problem though of the corrupt cops wanting money but luckly a provencial director helped us out by arranging an entrapment case where we where to pay the policemen with marked bills. In the end one was re-assigned and other was serriously demoted.
Later one of the guys Id put in hospital tried to make a problem for me at our barangay hall but the case was kicked out as it had allready been dismissed by the fiscal.
Also, Once had a problem with a soldier who pulled a gun on me, a person trying to file a fake case against me to finance a birthday party for themself, a policeman selling me a stolen vehical etc but that was last time police ever tried to exort money from me.
Justin - you certainly lead an interesting life!
Bob,
LOLOL It wasnt interesting , I just engaged in many foolish action in that time as I was still very young and was still a practicing Alcoholic.
Those above arent even the wildest storys as also got involved in a clan war between my wifes family and a family of chinese druglords, this lead to being in multiple gun fights and etc including having my car bombed in front of my house. Was also subject to rumors that at times took bad turns such as the time someone told that I was engaged in shabu manufacturing and distribution and the NBI actually put me on a watch list and even questioned a few other expats as well as my neighbors about my commings and goings and my alledged illegal enterprise. I never did run such a enterprise but was investigated for it just the same.
Justin
Hi Justin - I hear you… been there, done that. I’ve done some stupid things in my life myself. Glad to be past those days!
Hi Bob.
Scary stuff…..well worth the time to read all the comments.
Now I know why my partner doesnt like me to drive when I visit.I have a very low tolerance rate for poor driving skills and make it known.She is always telling me not to “throw” my temper at inconsiderate drivers.
BIG BIG mistake as I now know after reading the above comments.
18 months ago I had a guy do a U turn into the side of my car in Davao.The fact my 2 year old daughter could have been injured made me lose it big time as he was only bothered about his car.Things got heated and when the police arrived more time was spent arguing about MY threatening behaviour than the fact this idiot had crossed a central reservation into my path and could have killed my family.
I am sure it was only the fact that my partner had called the guy we had just bought the car from(he knew some people) and the agent and the old owner(who also knew some people) of our newly purchased house to defend us.
I have to say I objected to the fact she thought I was not able to defend myself but now realise I was probably on dangerous ground.
Thanks for the heads up and be assured I will be looking into having that part of my brain that controls road rage removed by my next visit.
As for the red mist that wells up and makes me crazy every now and again I will just have to keep taking the tablets.
AND a very merry xmas to you and your family.
Hi David - Don’t feel to bad, I think that all foreigners who come to live here go through some hard times when we lose our temper, and such. I know that I did, and still do sometimes. All you can do is to do your best to adjust, and hold your tongue when the time calls for it. Good luck!
It would be unfathomable for me to consider moving to the Philippines without sufficient funds to purchase whatever influence I would need in order to live a protected life in the Philippines. The spectre of authorities, or anyone with even moderate influence with the ability to destroy one’s peace of mind, or worse, cause you to be incarcerated (much less deported !) is more than I could bear. I know this is probably beyond the means of most expats that live there, but for me (and others I know that already live there), it would be essential for that sense of well-being. For a few thousand $US/year, one of my friends is basically “deportation proof” (except in the case of direct insult to one of the top 1/10 of 1%). It seems like a small price to pay for that peace of mind. It just seems sad that the Philippines is the way decribed in most of posts here. Where is the love?
Hi Spencer - I think that it is a little naive to think that you can purchase protection of your life. If you befriend a politician, what will you do when the other side is elected? Move to another town? Personally, I just think that what you say is not doable.
Spencer,
I dont think you could buy impunity nor become depotation proof for only a few thousand bucks a year as small time Karera opperators pay more than that per month in SOPs to barangay capitans, police chiefs, Mayors and etc and just the same their machines get arrested at times. Its my oppinion that relling on ones connections is foolish because when the poop hits the fan are they going to risk their position to help a white boy? I doubt it. Not to mention a rfew thousand wouldnt be much to the powers that be as they often earn in excess of 1million php per day.
meen every city in PI has people who are above the law mafia types but for an example. In butuan theres a chinese family who is above the law but they set aside 20mphp (about 400,000usd) per year to pay-off the local officials, keep every decent atty on retainer so the attys cant handle cases against them due to conflich of interest, maintain private army, donate motorcycles and cars to the pnp, etc etc etc. They have these type folks in cebu and places also
I have no idea what it would cost once said and done but feel quite confident that there arent many expats who could afford it because should a person be monied enough to drop 400,000usd a year plus on pay-offs theysd in all probabilyleft their home nation.
Now if your friend got in media or etc do you really think the politicos would step up and pull him out of jail and send him home? If he got into it with the mafia types or even their distant relatives or trusted worker would the politicos help him at the expense of losing a much larger contributor? In PI legal syastem the foreigner generally gets shafted and regardless of rather you give a few thousand bucks or not youll still be a foreigner. Sounds like a good hustle to me, take the expats few thousand bucks a year tax free, let him think he has impunity but if poop hits fan bail on him and let him get shafted but be thankful for the years he paid you a few thousand bucks
Justin
Hi Justin - I couldn’t agree more!
Spencer,
I dont think you could buy impunity nor become depotation proof for only a few thousand bucks a year as small time Karera opperators pay more than that per month in SOPs to barangay capitans, police chiefs, Mayors and etc and just the same their machines get arrested at times. Its my oppinion that relling on ones connections is foolish because when the poop hits the fan are they going to risk their position to help a white boy? I doubt it.
More or less every city in PI has people who are above the law mafia types but for an example. In butuan theres a chinese family who is above the law but they set aside 20mphp (about 400,000usd) per year to pay-off the local officials, keep every decent atty on retainer so the attys cant handle cases against them due to conflich of interest, maintain private army, donate motorcycles and cars to the pnp, etc etc etc. They have these type folks in cebu and places also
I have no idea what it would cost once said and done but feel quite confident that there arent many expats who could afford it because should a person be monied enough to drop 400,000usd a year plus on pay-offs theyd in all probabily not
have left their home nation.
Now if your friend got in media or etc do you really think the politicos would step up and pull him out of jail and send him home? If he got into it with the mafia types or even their distant relatives or trusted worker would the politicos help him at the expense of losing a much larger contributor? In PI legal syastem the foreigner generally gets shafted and regardless of rather you give a few thousand bucks or not youll still be a foreigner. Sounds like a good hustle to me, take the expats few thousand bucks a year tax free, let him think he has impunity but if poop hits fan bail on him and let him get shafted but be thankful for the years he paid you a few thousand bucks. You would be far better just saving your money and using it to buy favorable outcomes when needed.
Justin
Hi Bob! I absolutely love visiting your web sites. You always have something interesting to read. I also appreciate the YouTube videos. Keep em’ coming!
Happy Holidays!
Junior
U.S.A.
Hi Junior - Merry Christmas! I’m glad that you are enjoying my sites!
Hi Bob. This has been a very informative post. Thanks, as always!
Thanks John Miele. Sometimes, I feel less than a man by alowing the taxi drivers to get over by overcharging me; sometimes more than the pre-agreed fare. I just swallow my pride and move on. If my filipino/a friends don’t speak up, I have to question their friendship, huh?
I am of the opinion that if I protest that many of the taxi drivers or locals will descend upon me if I and cause trouble if I don’t grin and bear it.
Maybe, I shouldn’t roam the country alone as I have when I visit.
Hi Ed Griffin - I’m glad that you found the information informative!
Hmmm, I wonder if writing a negative article about a landlord or a pizza pub could result in disrespecting a Filipino and thus a deportation?
Hi Rusty - I try to be careful about the things I write. I don’t feel that I have to not say things, but rather maybe I need to say them in a way that is not too negative. I can’t be sure if one could be deported for what is written on a blog, but I don’t doubt that it could happen.
As far as the land ownership issue - I can understand why Pinoys want to keep the Philippine Islands to themselves; Chinese already own half of New York, and it would be easy for them to buy these islands right out from under the Pinoys feet - although a compromise might be to allow someone married to a Philippine Citizen to purchase up to 1,000 square meters of land in their name. Just a thought.
On the issue of deportation - THIS IS REALLY SCARY! I have been there 3 times so far, and plan on retiring there in 4 or 5 years, but have never heard of this happening! Does anyone know if it could happen to a Naturalized Citizen of the Philippines? For example, let’s say 10 years from now, I take the oath and become a Naturalized Citizen, could someone then do something which would lead to my deportation because I’m a “foreigner” - or would I be covered with the same legal rights & protections as a Native Citizen? BTW: I asked my wife about this - she’s from Virac, Catanduanes and Quezon City, Luzon - and she says she has never heard of anyone being deported like that. Still, it kinda makes one wonder…..
Hi Captain Todd - I know a lot of foreigners who have been deported. There are foreigners deported from the Philippines every single day - 365 days per year. Perhaps your wife never heard of it happen, but for sure, I know that it does. It is not something that most Filipinos follow. It’s kind of like - how many parking tickets were issued in your town in 2008? You probably don’t know, because it just is not important to you. Same situation with deportations. Believe me, it is a normal and regular thing.
If you become a citizen, you could never be deported, because you are no longer a foreigner.
Thanks for that update, Bob, and for raising awareness. I will keep my head low for the first 5 years, then take that oath ASAP!!!!!
Hi Captain Todd - To live happily in the Philippines, it’s good to keep your head low, and try to just get along even after your become a citizen!
That’s just the way that most people live here.
Hello Bob,Justin,David ,Kumander ,Jim,Dave Starr , and all the rest;
I know I am a month late for this conversation. I just wanted to add my thought on deportation. I for one have come close to being deported at least 3 times. have also be talked to about the black list. Every time it was miscommunication, and or the party that was wrong felt that as a foreigner I could not show them in the law that they were wrong. They would just say, “that is not how we do it here” ha ha the laughing was how I got in trouble. I guess I’m lucky that I am still here.
Maybe just Maybe the reason is I really try and speak the local dialect. I know that back in the states you hear all the time “If you are going to live here learn to speak English” I am trying very hard to assimilate into the culture. I left the U.S.A. for a reason.. I don’t want to bring it here. After 11 years I am starting to get better at being quit “promise”
Just a thought….
Gary from Surigao City
Hi Gary - Eleven years? You have been here long enough, I hope that you have settled into the routine now, and can live the way things are here.
I am lucky, I have never had any threat of deportation, not even talked to about it. I am certainly aware of the possibilities that it can and does happen.
I do believe that speaking the local language (what you do speak, cebuano or surigaonon?) can make you more likely to be deported. I say this because by speaking the local language you are showing people that you have been here long term, and because of that you should understand how things work here.
I wish you all the best.
Hi Bob, this site is very enlightening^^. I am a Filipina from CEbu. I was searching about deportation cases in the Philippines and i ended up here in your site.
Recently my boyfriend went through a deportation proceeding. It really saddened me so much and much worse I was terribly embarrassed about my country’s justice system. I know there are foreigners who deserve to be deported ( especially when they do illegal stuffs) but not to those who just expressed their anger or something.
My boyfreind and I work in the same company and he is the operation manager,. Often times my BF complains about the work attitude of FIlipinos . ( and I couldnt argue more about this coz , it’s is true). And he sometimes loose his cool to our staff and tells him off ( I swear he is the most reasonable person i’ve known). One of our Filipino managers ( under him) couldnt take it and filed a complaint to BOI.
Although the case has been solved in favor o f my bF, he said he felt humillitaed and angry about how our people in the government treat them ( thought he ddint tell me what really transpired in the hearing) and it costs him a lot since he has to fly to manila for the hearing and bring his lawyer.
I really feel sorry. SOme Filipinos ( especially those who are in the middle class and ruling class) really need to be educated more about this. Some of them are narrowminded and what they knew is what they can do with their very little knowledge. THey have never thought about impact it will bring to others and to the Filipinos in general.
So i really hope , our governent officials can see this problem ( although, i have lost my faith in them) with one deportation case who knows we have already lost a potential help for the filipinos.
Hi Yumi - Thanks for sharing your story, it is interesting to hear. I hope that your boyfriend can learn the lesson and through doing so keep his opinion a little more in check. It is something that all of us foreigners must learn to do better, I think.