Buying or Renting in the Philippines?
Why I think it is better to rent
Should you be renting in the Philippines? Sometime in the past, I published an article here about renting a place to live. Almost immediately after the article was published, a number of people questioned why I would be renting in the Philippines instead of buying a property. Jim Cunningham put it in a non-confrontational way, simply wondering why I would choose to rent.
Stupid Me
Thomas Gil called me stupid for renting. Hmm… it’s the first time in years that I have been accused of being stupid, but if that is what Thomas thinks, well, so be it. The fact is that I have some real concrete reasons why I would prefer to rent. For others, like Jim or Thomas, if they wish to own a property, that is their decision, and I do not think that they are wrong for doing so, but the fact is that owning a house in the Philippines is not my choice, at least not at this time.
So, what would be my reasons for wanting to be renting in the Philippines instead of owning a house?
Timing
First, timing is a key factor. Right now, my youngest child is in grade 4. He will finish High School in about 6 years from now. At the time that our youngest child finishes High School, we probably will choose to no longer live in Davao.
We won’t be in Davao forever
The fact is that there are things about Davao that we are really becoming disillusioned with. The city is becoming way too crowded and congested for our taste. Traffic in Davao is a nightmare, and it seems that little or nothing is being done to alleviate the problem. So, it is unlikely that we will remain in Davao after our youngest child finishes school.
Because our current place of residence, Davao City, is a place that we have come to consider only temporary, the temptation to own a home here is simply not there. We don’t have the desire.
Economic Prudence
Jim mentioned in his comment that being economically astute dictated that you should own a house instead of renting in the Philippines. He mentioned something along the lines of paying rent was like throwing money away.
I am sorry, but I disagree with that. Let’s look at some numbers.
The rental price is low
The house where I am currently living had been offered to us for sale a number of years ago. The price was P20 Million Pesos. Now, I renting in the Philippines of almost P38,000. In US Dollars, at today’s exchange rate, the asking price for this house would be $476,000. My rent in US Dollars would be $883.
Take the cash and invest it
OK, so if I take $476,000 to buy a house, or to build one, it could save me from paying $883 per month. Alternatively, if I took $476,000 and invested it with an annual return of just 5%, my return would be $23,800 annually or $1,983 per month. I could invest that money at 5% (in normal economic times that is a quite conservative return) and the interest on the money would pay my rent and also produce an extra $1,100 per month of income for me. If I buy the house, I no longer have the principal, and I save $883 per month. If I were able to get 7% interest instead of 5%, my monthly return becomes $2,776, an increase of about $800 per month!
Other financial responsibilities
On top of the simple interest calculation, if I own the house I am also responsible for other things. Property taxes. Repairs on the house, and such.
Frankly, given these kinds of numbers, it makes no sense to buy.
Less than 1%
In the USA, Real Estate investors generally shoot to get a minimum of 1% of the property’s value each month as rent. That makes economic sense and makes it prudent to buy a property. I have been paying only 2/10ths of one percent of the property value for rent! That’s almost like they are giving it to me! Economically, buying property in the Philippines is a losing proposition.
Ah, I know that many are saying that if you buy a house, it will appreciate in value, so it is an investment. Fact is, that is not necessarily true. Especially if you do a large house at the top end, the odds of it appreciating in the Philippine market are small, in fact, the odds are that it will remain the same, or even decrease in value.
Hard to sell
If you own a house and decide you want to move – maybe you want to go back to the US or wherever you came from, or maybe you want to go to Bohol, Cebu or some other place in the Philippines, the fact is that a higher end property, especially one built “for an expat” who has different tastes than the local market, is very hard to sell. I have seen houses that are up for sale for years here. I have also seen expats who decided to “go home” and had to sell their dream house for a fraction of what they spent to build it.
At the time of publication, my wife and I have decided to return to the USA and will be leaving the Philippines soon. Not being stuck with a house to sell makes things much easier for us, I can assure you.
Freedom and Flexibility
As I have told about repeatedly on this site, I have had some serious issues with my neighbors in the past year. If I owned the house, I would be stuck here and could not just move to a new neighborhood. As Dave Starr mentioned in a comment, what if I had neighbors who decided to open a metal shop, or a pig farm next door? There would be little I could do. If I am renting in the Philippines, I can just move somewhere else. If I owned the place, I would be stuck.
Other Options
Any regular reader knows that Feyma and I own property on Samal Island. We have talked about building a house there. Because of some of the things I mentioned above about Davao, we feel that we don’t want to live in Davao in the future, and that includes Samal. Maybe we will change our minds over the years that are coming, we are not sure. But, right now, we have other options in mind. I have not mentioned here, but Feyma also owns other lands in other parts of the Philippines (in Mindanao and in the Visayas), and these other places are possibilities for our longer-term living. Maybe we will be in Davao, maybe not. Right now, we are leaning toward not making Davao our long-term home, though. Why would I want to buy a house that could be very hard to get rid of in the long run?
We all have our opinions
The truth is, there are a lot of reasons why, at this time in my life, I feel it is better for me to be renting in the Philippines. If others think it is unwise, I have no problem with whatever they think, but I also know what is right for me. Am I stupid for renting in the Philippines? I don’t think so. If some people think I am, I don’t really lose any sleep at night worrying about what they think. Additionally, I don’t lose any sleep worrying about whether I should continue renting in the Philippines or own a house in the Philippines. I know what is right for me. I don’t know why others think that I should live by what is right for them.
You are free to your own opinion
There are reasons to own property too, I am not saying that there are not. The biggest one is simply because you want to own your house. For some, it means peace of mind to own their house. For others, like me, they get peace of mind not being tied down to a property.
We owned our house in the USA, so we are not anti-owning. I am, however, anti-owning-in-the-Philippines. At least for now, given my life situation, and my future plans.
I have no issues with those who want to own, it is their decision. I don’t understand why my wish to rent my house should be a concern for others.
Thoughts from former LiP writer, Dave Starr
As many of you already know, my wife and I renting in the Philippines. To many Americans, long accustomed to buying more house than they can afford because “real estate always goes up” renting in the Philippines instead of buying is perceived as a very bad thing … an admission that I am unsuccessful or one step ahead of personal bankruptcy or the bill collector. Yet another “ran off to the Philippines failure” in some people’s view, I am sure.
Well, opinions are just like armpits, everyone is entitled to a few, but for those that do feel that way, my own opinion is, you would be wrong. I am heading into my retirement with zero debt. Zero, as in “don’t owe nobody”. My car is near-new and paid off, I have money in the bank in both countries, and the next significant money my wife and I are planning to spend is traveling for pleasure … for cash, nothing on the cards.
It doesn’t make sense right now
The economics of trying to buy a home as we live in now just doesn’t make sense. I know I have written about it before, but maybe not here on LiP. Basically, I can pay my current rental rate for 10 or 11 years before the investment I’ve made equals what a normal down payment for a house in this price range would be … and then I’d have to take on a loan for 15 or 20 years to pay off the balance. Regardless of the dollars and pesos involved, I doubt I’ll be living in this house 10 years from now, so it makes no sense at all to me.
That being said, there are a couple things you need to keep in mind if you are thinking about moving to the Philippines and renting in the Philippines:
Repairs and Improvements
In general, Philippine landlords are not obligated to “take care” of their tenants to the degree US landlords are. I’ve even been offered houses to rent that lacked a working toilet. “Oh sir, once you sign the lease and make your deposit the landlord will order the repairs.” Yep. And I have some ocean-front property in Arizona to sell you too, if you believe that fairy tale. Our editor here, Bob, reports he has an excellent landlord who is atop all repairs right away, whenever asked. That’s great. It is also not the norm.
Deposits
Ah, yes, the magical deposit. In my area, the typical lease asks for first and last month and one extra month’s rent as a damage deposit. Allegedly this will be returned upon the satisfactory termination of the lease. In practice, this seldom happens. The order of normal business I am aware of is this … you will likely be allowed to just live out the last couple months for free in lieu of an actual deposit return. If the landlord doesn’t agree to this, what is he going to do, evict you? You were leaving anyway. Again, like everything YMMV, but I certainly don’t expect my deposit back, even though the house is in a heck of a lot better condition now than when we first started renting in the Philippines.
Post Dated Checks
A very common business practice here in the Philippines, for any regular recurring debt, is to write a year or more worth of checks, in advance, dating each check for the month it is due and handing them all over to the landlord. It’s common, and it works for some people. I don’t like it. I am honored because I have relatives nearby, known to the landlord, to be able to pay my rent in cash each month and I do consider it an honor. Especially since I don’t have a Philippine checking account and am in no hurry to get one. Think this through before you get too far down the road on a house you may be interested in renting in the Philippines.
Utilities
When Bob pointed up the need to always keep receipts. It is likely your landlord may keep the utilities in his/her own name and just expect you to pay the bills for each month of use. Very unlikely that you can change this arrangement, even if you want to. For example, the electric company is very unlikely to even give you service as a foreigner without permanent residency status and some history of living here.
Not a big issue
Works ok for me and many others, but there is one huge caveat. Make sure any account you are thinking of accepting this arrangement on is current. If, for example, the last tenant ran up big charges, guess who is going to pay the charges in order to get the service turned on? Do you have a mirror handy?
An American friend just about went berserk on this issue a few years back. He rented a house that had a phone line but did not get the phone turned on at the time. A month or so later he visited the phone carrier’s office and asked for service. The smiling clerk said, “Certainly, sir, the charge will be about 50,000 Pesos.” After my friend picked himself up off the floor, he asked why.
Oops, unpaid bill!
Well, turns out that is what the last tenant had run up and skipped out on. Now to people imbued with a sense of fairness, as many of us are, this just sounds unthinkable. My friend didn’t make those calls, why should he pay for them? The landlord certainly didn’t make the calls, so why should he pay for them? The phone company, though, is a public utility. It’s their job to collect the bills owed them. You want service on that phone line, then you pay the bill.
I guess a cellular phone will do
Eventually, after a lot of harsh words, arms waving and elevated blood pressure, my friend just gave up on the idea of a landline phone. But the exact same thing could happen with an electricity account or water. It’s a lot harder to live without electricity or water. So before agreeing to take on any utility accounts, visit the utility in question … the landlord may not even know about unpaid charges … and inquire for yourself. You can not fix a problem like this after the fact, you have to have reliable information before you sign a lease, or, just like in playing tag, you are “it”.
Neighbors and Noises
A foreigner friend lives nearby and suffers greatly from noise. The neighbor on one side of my friend’s home in our residential neighborhood actually runs a commercial sheet metal manufacturing business out of his house and driveway. All day and sometimes into the night metal gets beaten into shape, welds get made (just great for the power in my friend’s house) the welds get nosily ground down, the parts get spray painted with clouds of smelly spray paint, and noisy trucks deliver and pick up often.
The is essentially no concept of zoning and conforming use laws in many towns. And there is no one who is going to go out and enforce any that do exist in many cases. How did my friend get into such a pickle? Easy.
Afraid of the skin tax
He was so afraid that the landlord would charge him a higher price because he was a foreigner, he sent his sister-in-law to look at the house and negotiate the price. The lady did a fine job, my friend only pays PHP 1,000 more a month than I do, which is the going rate for these houses. But to the sister-in-law, the sheet metal shop next door was nothing unusual at all … in fact some would consider it an asset, because if you had an unemployed bum or a drug dealer living next door, things could be worse, diba?
Dave’s advice? (and it’s only my opinion, of course).
Forget about this sometimes overblown fear of being ripped off with a foreigner price. You can easily find out what things are supposed to cost without sticking your nose in first. Then go look at any house you are going to rent yourself and make your own decision. In particular, as part of the process, introduce yourself to the neighbors on each side and the lot on the street behind you. It only makes good sense to me, you are the one who has to live there, and you should do your own research.
If something about the neighbor scares you or turns your stomach … or if the neighbor seems hostile toward you, wouldn’t it make sense to find out before the landlord has your deposit money and your signed lease?
Another former LiP writer, John Meile also chimed in
We renting in the Philippines. Buying a house in the Philippines is not really something we have ever considered. Why? There are a number of reasons, but I’ll come to that later. Real estate articles on here tend to get emotional responses. What I’ve written is my experience only. Some people may have done things differently.
A little different
Renting in the Philippines is somewhat different than in many other locations in the world, particularly in the United States. Though, before moving here I had rented abroad previously, some expectations I had got quickly changed once I renting in the Philippines. Some common things that are different:
- Locating a place. In the United States and the UAE, if you wanted to find a place to rent, you got online or got the local classifieds. Generally, the rents were spelled out, fixed based on the unit or square footage, and are accurate and up-to-date for the most part. Trying to renting in the Philippines while you are still abroad is a nearly impossible task. Listings online or in the paper frequently are months old, rents are typically unspecified or not accurate, or the photos posted might not match. The landlord can pretty much choose the amount he will rent to you. Discrimination is not only legal, but many Filipinos expect it. If you are moving here from abroad, it is best to budget a few weeks in a hotel and search in person. If not, at least a couple of days and pick an initial, short-term rental until you can find time to really look. Additionally, having a Filipino, say a relative of asawa or girlfriend, search for you will surely lead to disappointment. How can they possibly know what you really want? If you are working here or going to school (or you have kids), traffic in Manila should dictate where you live more than any other factor, unless you want to spend a quarter of your life sitting on EDSA and commuting. You cannot know some of these things until you first stay here a while. If you bought, you are pretty much locked-in.
- Move-in rents typically require four months minimum rental deposit. (Usually First, Last, and at least two months, usually more, security). This is pretty standard here. Compare versus the States where a typical flat might only require two months all-in.
- Furnished apartments here typically have furniture that is the absolute cheapest possible. Executive long-stay places are not nearly as common here as in major business centers (Though they do exist).
- A common practice here is for landlords to collect twelve post-dated rent checks in advance of move-in, and with lease renewal. Not all, but many, if not most, do this. Some landlords will allow the deposit to be used as last month rent if they are allowed to inspect for damage before the lease expires.
- Retrieving security deposits is not as easy as it may seem. Many renters here have great difficulty retrieving deposits. A good tenant/landlord relationship makes this much easier.
- Annual rent increases are capped by law at 3%… How many landlords observe this law? Not many. Again, a good relationship with your landlord is critical. (In our case, she increases 3% every two years, which is fair and reasonable).
- Typically, the renter is responsible for any and all maintenance (Something about renting in the Philippines that is very different from renting in the USA). This includes things like plumbing, electrical, and upkeep. We were able to negotiate with our landlord on a leaky roof and some termite damage, but some landlords hold you to the letter of the agreement.
- Most flats, houses, and apartments here are basically nothing more than four walls. On move-in, we needed to buy all the appliances, aircon, water heaters, light fixtures, new locks, and shower heads. We were also responsible for replacing broken water fixtures if we didn’t want to use the broken ones. This is why I do not recommend renting in the Philippines from abroad… You never know what you will find until you move in.
- Renters insurance, while useful in the USA, is effectively useless here.
Now, there are advantages to renting in the Philippines: Big advantages. We have had several opportunities to buy while living here. Passed on all of them. Some of the pros and cons of renting in the Philippines:
Renting in the Philippines: the pros and cons
Pros:
- You cannot know the quality of a neighborhood from abroad. Relying on what the family says is no good either. If you buy in an area, without knowing flood history, traffic, convenience, security in advance, you are opening yourself up to disappointment and a potentially large financial loss. If you are renting in the Philippines and don’t like the neighbors, place, etc., you are limited only by the terms of your lease. How do you know that the neighbors’ roosters crow at 3:00 am until you move in? Read Bob’s earlier article which detailed the call center that went up next door. Before living here, I was told that I should look at an area in Marikina. Wanna guess which area had massive floods? If I had purchased, I would have been stuck. Say you move close to asawa’s family, and there are problems. If you own, you cannot easily move away from the situation (I was lucky… No such issues). Place that house in the province… Now what ya’ gonna do? By renting in the Philippines, we have flexibility if we need it.
- You cannot own anything here, except for a condo. Yeah, people say they “own”. You own nothing. Your spouse or whoever you bought the house for owns it. If you are in a long-term, stable relationship, then the difference is quibbling over terms. If not, a BIG difference, regardless of what anyone tells you the law is or how they “bought” some land. Say you lease land and build a house. You DO NOT own the house, but not the land, as has been posted many times online. Under Philippine law, the house becomes part of the land (same thing, BTW, if you make “improvements” to a rental… We added a gate to our house. When we move, the gate stays behind unless we but the house back to original condition). As to condos, they do not necessarily only mean an apartment. Many subdivisions with single-family homes are designated as condominiums. Also relating to condos, their value is always dependent on how well they are maintained. Ever look at building maintenance here? Buildings, were they in the States, that would look 40 years old are often relatively new, perhaps only ten years. Now, Rebecca and I have been married four years, together nearly six, and known each other for nine years. We are stable, I trust her 110%, but we still rent. Why? Yeah, owning a place might give her a little more security, but she doesn’t want to be tied here permanently (What if I croak? What if I am transferred? Say that Juanito inherits… Does he want to live here?) Selling a property in the Philippines can be an exhausting, trying, and expensive task.
- Rents are much cheaper in the Philippines than house payments. Typically less than 1% of the value. We are renting in the Philippines because of the economics work.
- The real estate market in the Philippines is terrible. If you think you will make money by buying a house, think again (Unless you are in a very highly desirable location, like in the CBD, or on the beach, or something similar). Many foreigners start building something here and the project is abandoned (The relationship went sour, they ran out of money, they ran into squatter or legal issues). The area around Rebecca’s place has numerous gigantic houses built for foreigners or OFWs that are virtually unsalable (Too expensive for the region). If you are planning to buy or build something and live in it until you die, then perhaps this is not a concern, but it is unlikely that you will make money. Those who make money in real estate in the Philippines either are playing in the luxury market (very limited), or are dealing with multi-unit rentals. Over the years, in the States, I was always told that real estate was a great investment. For many years, it was. Many of those same people who hounded me have eaten those words.
- Mortgages in the Philippines are very difficult to acquire and offer terrible terms and APR. Though some foreigners can “help” by being listed on a mortgage, since you cannot own land here, the bank will generally not issue a mortgage in your name alone. Banks view foreigners as debt risks, so unless your asawa’s family is well-off and she has the ability to qualify on her own, you are most likely out of luck. Not impossible, but very difficult. If you are over the age of 50, then forget this option entirely. Banks in the Philippines can, and do, discriminate based on age. Since those over 50 are more likely to kick off before the mortgage is paid, you are therefore a greater risk, no matter how good your pension or how much money you have. Though we could likely qualify for a mortgage here (The way I set up our accounts will do that… We were offered 35% DP and 10 years at 14%… Much higher foreigner rates), the financial requirements simply do not add up: We would lose a bundle except by paying cash, and even then the numbers do not make much financial sense.
Cons:
- If you own, you can build, modify, add-on any way you damn well, please. Zoning in the Philippines is either weak or non-existent in most places. Do you want to start a fireworks factory in a residential area? Paint it purple with lime green accents? Build a sari-sari? No problem in many cases (Though the HOA might have an issue with that). However, your neighbors are free to do the same. In the provinces, with land all around, then most likely no big deal. In Makati? Might be a big deal.
- Asawa security. With no divorce in the Philippines, many Filipinas view a house as security in their old age. Now, in my case, Rebecca doesn’t hold that view. However, many people here do hold that view. For those dating online and such, when a Filipina asks you to build a house, in many ways it is security should you decide to dump her or leave the country. May sound harsh, but facts are facts. Home, or land, ownership is also the one thing that shows true social status in the community… More than money or anything else. When Rebecca grew up, those who owned land never went hungry. Is that the case today? Probably not. But when you are raised believing it, a very different view. Is it worth the risks and hassles? Only each individual can decide for themselves, but buying something immediately, or sight unseen, is simply asking for trouble, regardless of reason. In the Philippines, real estate and the laws related to it are completely different than what expats will be familiar. At least when you live here a while before buying or building, you can truly know the reality.
Let’s talk about Renting in the Philippines vs. Buying
Hi friends! It’s Podcast day again today! Because of that, I am back with another episode of the Expat Answer Man! I hope you have been enjoying the show. it iis fun to do a voice post instead of just written words. I hope you also realize that there are multiple ways you can get and listen to this Podcast! We have a listing on iTunes, where you can listen to the show. You can also listen right here on the website. You can even download the show and listen in your car or using your cell phone or iPod while working out or just enjoying your day. Hopefully, the diversity of methods for you to get this information and entertainment is useful for you.
The Age Old Question
Today, it’s a discussion that has been hashed out many times over the years here on LiP. What was the question? Is it better to be renting in the Philippines or to buy a place to live in the Philippines? We have gone through this one so many times on this site, but I suppose it’s time we talk about it again! I know the timing is right because I got a question via SpeakPipe from Tommy asking just that question!
My mind is made up about renting in the Philippines
Most readers who have been around for a while will know that I am pretty firm in my thinking that renting in the Philippines is the way to go, at least as an initial way of living here.
It takes time to make sure that you made the right move when you traveled here, and if you buy, you may find it difficult to get rid of your house if you should decide to return to your home country, or if you think that moving to another part of the Philippines is right for you.
Why not give the podcast a listen and see what you think! If you think that paying rent is a waste of money, listen to my reasoning and see what you think? Still, think I’m wrong? No problem, we all have to make our own choice, but why not tell me in the comments how you reach your conclusion? It might make for an interesting discussion!
[powerpress]
Rental deposits in the Philippines
Renting in the Philippines is something that I highly recommend. At least for the first few years. Truth is, renting in the Philippines makes economic sense. Rental costs in the Philippines are relatively low compared to the cost of owning a home. This is not the case in much of the world. Renting in the Philippines makes economic sense, and common sense too.
Why do I recommend renting in the Philippines?
Well, there are a few reasons. Firstly, if you build to the standards that you are accustomed to, it will very likely be very difficult to sell. Most houses here are not built to US standards. Also, people here might not like the design of your “American style” house. What Filipinos like, and what we like is not always the same. Nothing wrong with that, we are just different, as would be expected. However, if you build the house that you like, and decide to move somewhere else, you may never be able to sell the house.
Don’t be too sure
Most foreigners come here dead set that they are going to live in a certain place. They are sure of it. I came here with the idea that I was 100% certain that I wanted to live in General Santos City. After two years there, I decided to move to Davao City instead. It’s a move that I have never regretted. After living in Davao, though, I have decided that this is not the place where I will live forever. There are a number of reasons for that, which are outside the scope of this article. But, the fact is, I am very happy that I have continued renting in the Philippines.
Somebody asked me the other day, though, about deposits on rentals. How much do you have to deposit, and can you ever get your deposit back? Let me try to answer those questions.
How much deposit?
How much do you need to deposit when you rent a house in the Philippines? Well, there is no law about it that I am aware of. It is simply something that you negotiate with the landlord at the time of rental. While living in the Philippines, I don’t think I have ever put down more than a 2-month deposit. This is a security deposit, to ensure that you do not damage the place. It also ensures that you pay all the bills when you move out. For example, if the electric bill wasn’t paid the deposit will be used to cover that. Same goes for telephone, water, or whatever else you may have on a monthly billing.
Now, I said previously that I have always given 2 months deposit. Sometimes I have been asked for more but I have always been able to negotiate it down to 2 months. If the demand is too much, just walk away.
Will you get the deposit back?
What about getting your deposit refunded? Well, legally, the landowner must refund your deposit. Unless it used to make repairs to damage you caused or to pay bills that were left unpaid. That is the law. In practice, though, it can be difficult to get that deposit back. I have come up with a way that has ensured that I get my deposit back every time. I suppose it can still be circumvented, but in my experience, that has never happened.
How do I do it?
I leave the deposit asked for, say 2 months. Then, as my contract is coming near the end, I go and talk to the landlord. I do this a couple months before the end of the lease.
Also, I explain that I will be leaving when the contract ends. I also tell the landlord that I have maintained the house well. Usually leaving it in better condition than when I moved in. I invite the landlord to come and have a look if he would like to do so. Usually, this invitation is declined, and the landlord simply accepts my word that the house is in good condition.
Next, I ask the landlord if there will be any problems in returning the deposit that I left with them. I watch to see if he indicates that he doesn’t have the money. If so, I simply propose that I stay in the house for the last two months rent free.
So far, so good
So far, in every case, this method has worked. There have been times when the landlord has assured me that he has the money to refund my deposit. There have also been times when I lived rent-free for two months. In either case, though, I have always gotten my deposit back.
My view is that you should maintain a good relationship with your landlord. Treat him with respect, and keep the lines of communication open. If you do that, he will treat you fairly. Of course, there are some landlords who are bad people and will not keep his word. However, in my experience, so far I have not had that problem. I think that such a problem would certainly happen in a small minority of situations.
So, that’s how it has worked for me. Every person is different, but these are my experiences with rental deposits.
Hi Bob, Im glad I am the first to comment on this subject – probably because its 01.10am in the morning and i am up to my old tricks of browsing endlessly, you make some valid points, everyones reasons for building or buying will be different, motivating factors come into the decision, in my case, the factors are, investment in retirement, the fact that my Filipino citizen wife will benefit, and thirdly the cost of land is increasing.
Renting though is excellent advice, and if you dont like the lifestyle, you can always head west again, there is nothing better it seems than a try before you buy package, as always Bob you have it spot on.
the one thing that appeals to me is the option of building a home with your own design preference. i agree, after finally deciding that the country is right for you, maybe see if you can build. i would. instead of the usual cookie cutter homes here in the states, you get to play with your own floorplan.
Hi Bob,
We are at present working on plans to settle in Davao, if it all works out we could be over there with you quite soon.
I recently spent six weeks living in Sto.Totomas with my inlaws, wandering the streets, in the markets, drinking in the bars etc. to see if I could live in Mindanao without any great culture shock. As it turned out I no real problems and it did not dissuade me from moving to Mindanao. Perhaps I have an advantage in that I once lived in Madagascar before.
Could you tell us some of the precise reasons that foreigners give when they decide to return to the West after coming to Mindanao to settle ? What is it that they generally cannot cope with ?
Thanks in advance,
Scott [ and Rhodora ]
Bob I will second Scott on that, as I thought of a similar reply after making the first reply, can you expand and tell individual stories as you saw them, in why foreigners decided to come back to their native lands, it would be of great help to many of us, you are there so you get to see the ones who throw in the towel as we would say.
Hi Peter – the investment part of the argument is one that I didn't include in the article, and I should have. It's certainly a good thing to consider.
Hi Macky – I agree with you. For somebody like you or me, who works at home, it's even more important. We are not only designing our living space, but our work space too, and that makes it all the more important for it to be "just right".
Hi Scott and Peter – Good points. I will soon try to make a post about why people can't make it here, and why they leave.
Hi Bob, another great article! Once before my wife and I (we're both Filipinos) talked about buying land in the PI were we plan to retire. Although retirement is still years away we thought it's a good idea to purchase just the land for now and have a house built when we retire. As Peter B. said, land is getting pricier so if we're 100% sure in retiring in the PI we might as well invest in buying the land now. Anyway, our little conversation did not go very far because if I remember correctly, PI has problems with squatters. How do you keep squatters from living in your land when you are not around?
My parents currently have these issues with squatters. They have quit a bit of land in Cagayan de Oro and every 2-3 years they fly to PI to check the land for "trespassers". Several times they encountered people living in there land with "bahay kubo" or make shift houses. They usually have to spend money for lawyers and bulldozers just to get them out. They eventually would come back after a month after my parents head back to the states. This seems to be a big hassle especially if we don't have any relatives in the PI that we can count on. Any ideas on how this issues are usually dealt with? By the way, my parents land is somewhere in the boodocks so local enforcement is zero.
Bob,
I've been reading your Blog for a while now and it's really good. Really looking forward to an answer on Joe's question about squatters. Me and my wife (she's Philipina), have land in Cavite, no squatters yet, but it is a constant worry. She's going over this fall to pay taxes on the land and to make sure there are no squatters, possiblly build apartments on it. Any suggestions or comments?
Hi Joe and Ed – Thanks for stopping by my blog! The issue of squatters is an interesting one. I will address it on a post on the blog sometime this week. Thanks for the suggestion.
I will be looking forward to your post on squatters. When I was visiting my fiancee's family in Samar last month, her uncle and I looked at some nice ocean front property as I had expressed an interest in buying some land – yes, I know I can't own the land but I trust my fiancee and her family. Ultimately we will build a home there but that is several years down the road -see your other post about leasing, owning, or building. 🙂
Anyways, there were lots of squatters on the land. It was wall to wall “bahay kubo”. I asked the uncle about it and he told me not to worry because they would have to move. I said – sorry, but that is a good way to get a "shiver in the dark". 😮 note the Dire Straits reference 🙄
Forcing these poor people out of their homes is not how I want to begin life in Samar. Yes, legally I could do it and my fiancee's family would make sure it stayed squatter free but my personal morals will not allow me to do it.
Now, they have found some ocean front property in another barangay that is squatter free for only 600P per square meter. My sweet Lord, 600P per square meter? :grin::roll:
Hi Bob. I just stumbled on your site and only have 1 thing to say…. "THANK YOU". I'm leaving in a week for Manila and planning an extended stay and the topics that I've read so far have been extremely helpful. For example, when I get to Manila I'll be looking for a condo or townhouse to stay in for 6 months. After that a new condo my friend owns should be completed and I can move in there. While searching online for potential places to stay I noticed that everyone was requiring a 1 year lease… your insight into a shorter term is a tremendous help for me. Thank you!!!
Hi Ben – Happy to be of service! I'm glad you found the site. One thing to watch out for – be very careful of apartment or real estate prices on the Internet. They are often inflated in hopes of hooking a foreigner who doesn't know the real price. Good luck on your trip!
Another consideration is to ensure any land you are buying is lean free and that you are purchasing from the actual owner. This usually takes a lawyer (not as expensive as you would think). Possible check twice so some time later someone doesn't appear from nowhere claiming your land is theirs and evicting YOU as the squatter!
Hi Ray – Good thought! Checking for a clear title is always important in any real estate transaction here!
Its a very good story Bob, the one I thing I find in the Philippines is that important documents are very slow to obtain, it always amazes me just how "They never seem to be ready" or "The Attorney is not there to do it" or "The attorney is away on holiday so they can't finish it" I mean whats wrong with these people ? is there only 1 attorney in the office that can sign a lease or notorize it, I often wonder if they are all on vacation permanently. I find your story very true Bob, we also have the same problem, with official documents, it seems to drag on and drag on, and they don't seem to have any concern about time management.
This is where you have to push them for the copy of your lease or buyers contract, because as you have said Bob, you have no legal recourse to fight them, if you dont have the correct documentation, in the words of Fox Mulder "trust no-one". i THINK that just about sums it up dont you boys ?
Pete
I don't agree, totally don't agree, i just posted a comment on another of Bobs sites saying i had always been treated fairly in the Phils, unfortunately Bob, you had a bad one here but you sorted it out and moved on………..good luck to you Pete, sorry if you had some bad experiences
Hi Pete – I agree with a lot of what you are saying. It is important to get those papers, you can't just forget about it like I did! I should have gotten a copy to keep while they were out for notary, and replaced them with notarized copies after they came back.
Hi Rick – I don't think Pete is saying the treatment is unfair. He is saying that is how it is, and I agree. Everybody gets that kind of action, not just foreigners. You have to stay on top of it. I agree with you too, I am treated fairly here, just like everybody else, almost all the time.
It's the Philippines, everyone is on permanant vacation LOL, love it or leave it. It's taken me a month to get together all the paperwork from my upcoming marriage, and they just seem to want copies of everything in triplicate. As for renting, my landlord is ok. I'm renting a 3br, 3cr townhome in lanang for 18,000/month, complete with maids quarters. Back in April the the landlord approached about me about buying the place outright, seems he's tired of taking care of this row of townhomes as they were built in 1963, and getting quite old by philippine standards. I will pay 1.5milyon maybe 2 for the place but no more… it needs some serious cosmetic work to make it look nice and I hope he takes that into consideration when fixing a price, but I won't hope too much.
Hi Rick, well what can I say, glad for once someone does not agree with me, thats the beauty of Blogging, my point though is that I am someone who works for a professional company, we treat our clients like they are the only client we have, I guess I am used to a way of working that involves superb time management, if we didn't operate that way, we would not secure the clients that we do, we pride ourselves on being shakers and doers, when customers want things, we move it for them, I'm not sure if that has ever got through to the Philippines ? my experience with the Philippines is that they are a "Manana" country.
"You want it when ?"
I only state it as I find it, even now we are still waiting for land titles and other documents, we keep asking every week where they are ? we are always told the same thing, they are being processed, or its in Manila ? or the attorney is away, or the attorney has not looked at it yet ? I am sorry to tell them, "If you trade like this in my country, you would loose all your clients, they will simply dump their attorney and go elswhere, time is money, and time waits for no man"
Now I know what youre thinking, I am not in my country, and you would be correct to say that, its the Philippines or as my good freind and member of the freindsofmindanaobob .com would say "WELCOME TO THE PHILIPPINES" you have just been tangoed by the Philippine factors.
The simple fact is..I am not in my country, things don't move fast, and everything happens in its own time, its what we have to live with whether we like it or not, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Rick, dont ask me to like it…but only to accept it.
Last time I checked the USA is becoming a "Manana" country too
Pete / Bob
You make some persuasive points and to be honest i can't argue with the points you have made and it certainly is radically different way of doing things…………… i just enjoy the differences and smile rather than being frustrated, because…..it makes it better for me and i find frustrated and even angry westerners in the Phils clash with the local way of doing things, i have seen some examples and the clash can be ugly
however, i do really get your general point and it is one of the reasons Phils will be a poor country for the foreseeable future, as visitors, lets enjoy it for what it is
and no i will not ask you to like it
very best regards
In the Philippines everything other than your peso moves on a slow pace. We would like them to be faster. But, there are a maze of red tape and desks that needs to navigated. Even by a lawyer. Speed is expensive(Bob knows what I mean) the cost depending on haw fast you want your documents back. I miss the laid back, Island lifestyle of the Philippines. Time is what we seem to lack here in the US.
Hi,
You should have kept the receipts for the improvements you made, then presented them to your landlord. If he refused to give you the money for the improvements then I'm sure you could have removed a lot of it.
This is a time when the classic 'place a smelly fish in a curtain pole' trick comes in handy!!
Phil
Hi Louis – Sounds like maybe you can get a deal on the place! Good luck.
Hi Pete – I am like you… a lot of the stuff, I don't like, but I just go along. What else can you do? One person can't change the system, and it isn't our country after all. Funny thing is, when you sit down and talk with Filipinos, they are aggravated at many of the same things that we are! Maybe the system is due for a change.
Hi Louis – Not sure how you could say that the US is becoming a manana country. For me, a manana country means a place where it is common to "just do it tomorrow" and such. In the USA, everything is very "hurry up and go" oriented. Maybe we have different concepts of what manana means.
Hi Rick – Yep… unfortunately, many of the reasons that make the Philippines a poor country are really ingrained in the culture. It will take generations for change to happen.
Hi Bobby – Yes, I do understand what you mean! Problem is – things move too fast in the USA, and too slow in the Philippines! Ha ha… as human beings we will never be satisfied!
Hi Phil – Yeah, that would have been a good way to go!
Let's face it folks, landlords are the same the world over and I don't think Bob's experience is unique to the Philippines.
As for delays….be thankful that you're dealing with a human being and not a voice recognition system.
Well, just remember that the things that make this country a frustrating place to do business and the same things that makes it an inexpensive place to live for expats. If things were efficient, services complete and so on, the place would be booming, rent would be high and prices higher.
Another solution to the problem of getting things notarized is to build a relationship of your own with a local lawyer. Then, when you need something done (such as Bob's rental contract) you can say that you will be the one to take it to your lawyer and get it
done. Or, go together to his lawyer. Then you know who the lawyer is, and where the office is so you can also follow up.
We have talked to our landlords and come to an agreement before moving in about improvements. Landlords often expect to fix things and make improvements before people move in, so this is the best time for bargaining. You can ask them to do certain things (like plumbing repairs, leaking roof, and sometimes painting) before you move in. You can also make some sort of agreement about repairs you make being taken from the rent by submitting receipts. Usually these improvements need to be agreed upon in advance. There have been improvements we have made from our own pocket as well, for the sake of our quality of life. Labor is cheap, and we felt it was worth the expense to have things the way we like it.
Hi Laurence – Yep, I agree.
Hi AmericanLola – I agree with what you are saying about the notary/lawyer problem. Only hitch on this particular incident is that the owner of the house was in Manila, and the lawyer to be used was there.
Also, regarding the improvements, I just want to clarify. We made the improvements knowing that it was our expense. We didn't expect the landlord to do it. We had an agreement up front, and there was some consideration given by lowering the rent a bit, and we would do some improvements. My only problem was that I was hoping to hang around and enjoy the improvements that we had made, but instead was kind of pushed out of the house even before the contract expired.
always always always get a copy of any legal paper work before it leaves the room, with BOTH signatures on it even if it is not notorized. This is your reference point for the original, and counter claim to any 'doctored' documents. On long term leases owners are usually so esctatic that adding in a 3 or 5 yr. option at 5% ( or whatever % & term ) rent esculation clause for X amount of yrs. creates a future option for the leasee. Usually your first conversation with the leasor as you view a rental property is your BEST opportunity to 'fish around' for thier rental perimeters for future negotiation. I make it a habit when dealing with managers that I WILL NOT look at the property without the owner present. You want to get answers before they have time to think about them, write em down and re-iterate the high points so you know they've heard them from you ( ….lol sorry Bob..I get carried away on anything related to property investing or management…
interesting Bob, my wife and I own a lot on Samul..its a few kilometeres from Paradise Beach.
Thanks for your tips, Brian! I appreciate it.
Where is your lot at on Samal? Earlier this year we purchased 7 lots in Barangay Limao, which is a few kilometers south of Paradise Island. Maybe we are neighbors.
Hi Bob,
Have you any advice regarding paying deposits/rent in advance, I'm a bit concerned if I pay 2 months as a security deposit and 2 months up front that the landlord may be slow in repaying me at the end of the rental. Especially as I will be 7,000 miles away. I've read that they are not that fast in repaying your deposit etc.
Any suggestions ?
Gerry
With a digital camera, a copy of the document can be made. And now that cameras are starting to be Wi Fi, you can take a picture of the document, walk over to nearest Internet Cafe, and transmit it, print it, and be done. This link is the the Nikon Coolpix S6, which is an example of what I'm talking about.
Hi Kevin, the problem with that approach PhotoShop can then be used to make that agreement say anything one wants. Thanks to PhotoShop nothing is sacred anymore.
Like you, I am also in the position of (overseas) Philippine landlord and have been so for the last 20 years. I must say, that I never had any contract notarized. Just having 2 witnesses sign has always been enough.
Problems tend to arise when the tenant is leaving and asks if the last (2)months could be paid from the security deposit. When you are not there to check out the damages, don’t allow it! The security deposit disappears and you are left with the damages or with a huge power bill. The last tenant who did that to me was an American charity. Not very charitable of them.
A relatively new thing is this 5% withholding tax on the rent. Are all you tenants doing this and paying it to the IRS?
Bob, lot is also south of paradise several kiliometers, if u take road south (dirt rd.) where it hits an intersection that goes north ( i beleive ) its just past that split.
Hello Bob and Feyma
@ KEVIN –
As both a Philippine landlord and renter, I would say, "scan" a copy of the signed document, assuming the owner always sign first. Send the scanned copy (as a PDF file) and make sure the owner gets a copy via notification (use email notification button on software). I am sorry that this incident had to happen to you and your family, and wish it does not happen to anyone else.
@ GERRY – make sure the contract states terms of payment and specifications on returning deposit. That way, owner is bound by law.
I hope this does not spoil your life in the islands. Davao is beautiful and a great place to live. It sure is a lot more secure than Manila.
Mabuhay !!
Nestor
Chicago, IL
Hi Gerry – I'll give you a tip that has always worked for me. If you have placed 2 months deposit, or whatever, when you are getting ready to move, let the landlord know two months or more in advance of your move. At that time, ask him how he wants to handle the deposit. In every case that I've experienced so far, they will just let you stay for the additional two months without paying rent, to sort of "eat up" your deposit. Try it – it works!
Hi Kevin – Good idea about taking a hi res digital shot of the contract.
Hi Brian – It sounds like we must be close to each other in our Samal lots!
Hi Nestor – Thanks for your participation! You have some good thoughts to share there. Don't worry, these are just minor headaches, and have certainly not ruined my wonderful life here in the Philippines!
Hi Bob – Pete's posts bring back many memories, and reveal possible future issues for me. Adjustment is certainly the name of the game. Finding that vendor who sells the proper "Made in the Philippines rose-colored glasses" can take years.
Practicing adjustment prior to moving could help. On weekends that aren't devoured by work, I try to live island style–never schedule more than one task to do, if any; don't wear a wristwatch and avoid looking at clocks or trying to find out "What time is it?"; visit Filipino markets, shops and restaurants; visit relatives; and the like. Only items I haven't been able to simulate are the noises that are commonplace in the Phils!
Could not agree more with your advice, Bob. I recently commented here and wrote elsewhere about what seems to be one of the number-one 'sticking points" for a lot of people thinking about moving here. They want to buy a house and pin themselves down before they even experience the Philippines .. and they get all "wrapped around the axle" about the Philippines' strange property ownership laws. Maybe those laws have an unintended benefit … they keep a lot of foreigners from making bad investments.
This is _not_ California or south Florida or any other place that most Americans know the real estate market. In most parts of the US … or England or Australia, et al, buying and selling houses is a big industry. Real estate is a commodity, you buy a houser almost as easily as you buy a car. It don't work that way here.
As with you and Feyma, Mita and I will have our own home in the future. We already own land on which we may build. Or we may buy one of any number of homes in a nearby city built by another expat and abandoned. A 10 million peso home, as per your example, is $218,000USd at today's rate. 108,000 GBP, or 160,00 Euros. You can build a pretty nice home for 10 million pesos, but don't kid yourself, it will not be Bill Gate's mansion. And it will be virtually unsaleable. You can make it a nice enough place to suit yourself … but it's nothing like the idea of buying or building a $200,000 house in the US and then selling it a few years down the road to move and/or "trade up" to a bigger house. No matter how smart you thgink (or can prove) you are in your home country, you (and this specifically means me too, Im paying for my education here as we speak) don't know nuttin' here. Caveat emptor.
Hi Bob:
As I have said before. Very prudent advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bravo!!!
Another thing I have noticed is that over here the cost of building a house is going up while the cost of buying is going down. If you see a house you like for 6M pesos then maybe you want to wait a month. I have seen houses start out at 12M Pesos and get sold for 4M. The house I am buying is no McMansion but it is still 200SqM (2,100sqft). It would cost me abot 6M to build now but the purchase price is 3M. Just remember, the bigger the house you buy, the bigger the bills that come with it. The market is just that bad over here and your average Filipino just doesn't have that kind of money. So in the long run you're selling to other expats.
Hi Paul – Based on the things that Pete has been writing, I think that his eyes started to open up a bit in the three weeks he was here! Ha ha…. He will get adjusted when he lives here, this kind of eye opening process happens to all of us, I'd say!
Hi Dave Starr – Yes indeed, we all start out from a knowledge base of "zero" here, don't we? I have been here over 7 years, and I consider myself just at the "elementary school" level when it comes to things like real estate here. It is a big learning process, and I am not sure we can ever fully grasp it.
Hi Wayne – Thanks for the vote of confidence!
He Louis – I have noticed the same – houses that are pre-built can often be purchased for less than building – much less. The other thing to keep an eye out for is ex-pats who are bailing out on the place, can't sell the house, and are pretty much willing to take what they can get just to go home. Now, there you can find some real bargains!
Excellent advise, Bob! As missionaries, we had our adjustment period for sure. In our case, we had to realize and affirm that we did not come here because we like the weather, the food or the culture. We didn't come because life is convenient or even because we enjoy the company of the people here (at that point). In fact, the language was hard to learn, the weather exhausting, the culture a mystery, life inconvenient and there were coups and diseases, to name a few. Things are better now for the foreinger, way better. But if your reasons for coming are mostly for your own pleasure, and you tend to be a fairly inflexible or an impatient person, you will become either bitter or better. The Philippines will not change for us, we have to change for the Philippines.
Hi biz doc – Glad you found the old article and gave it a read. I agree with most of what you say.
Hi AmericanLola – I like that quote "we will either become bitter or better." If you don't mind, I am going to steal it and use it from time to time. The fact is, I believe that we all go through the process and we all become bitter. After that we either become better, or we leave. Thankfully for me, after become bitter, I overcame it and became better. Being better is healthier for me, it makes me feel better, and it makes people like me more. When you are bitter you will find that you have few (if any) friends, which makes matters even worse.
Hi Bob,
Given that expats do leave on a regular basis, have you ever thought about or do you see others buying up that real estate cheap? Or is it still a matter of what do you do with it once you have bought it?
Hi Tom – To date I have not done this, but I do feel that it is a nice strategy to follow. I did once rent a house from a British guy who went home. He desperately needed somebody to buy it or rent it from him, and I lived there for 2 years for about 1/3 of what the place should have rented for.
Another little idiosyncrasies you are liable to run into here in the Philippines: there are houses for sale for years … I mean 5 and 6 years or more … that have not sold and the owner will not deal on. In my experience, you'll seldom see this in the US. And 'bank owned" repossessed houses in the US are often a "steal" if a buyer can make a quick offer. But in the Philippines, while "bank owned" properties are plentiful, the dealing environment is completely different.
There's a home a hundred meters or so from me … it's a nice-sized two story dwelling on an unusually-oversize lot. The homes around it are all in the 1.5 to 2 million range (based on actual sales within the past year or two). This hoiuse is listed at 3 million and certainly worth it, based on comparable size, construction, location, etc.
It has been on the market for 6 full years. The owner (a Filipino businessman in Manila) reportedly turned down a 2.5 million cash offer where the prospective buyer actually brought the 2.5 mill to a meeting is cash in a briefcase. Pretty obvious that the owner is not anxious to sell.
Many people in the US have biougt at sold more than one house in that amount of time … and to have your house up for sale for 6 plus years?
There's a lot to learn.
just found this “old” article but i figured this needed clarification.
most owners’ refusal to part with less– despite having a property on the block for a number of years– is due to the fact that local zonal & appraisal values on the lot will still increase even if the structure standing on it depreciates both in value and in actual physical condition.
so in terms of taxes, it doesn’t help to cut a deal if they’re not under any pressure to sell, that’s why most open-ended sellers won’t be bothered to negotiate because they have nothing extra to gain by selling low on a property that’s sure to increase in value.
in the case of properties repossessed by banks, credit-management bank honchos tend to “list” properties for sale/auction that have little comparable appeal vs. similar properties within the same locale. that’s why it’s a rarity to find good deals from bank listings.
on the other hand, quality listings of repossessed properties end up being sold internally– to their own officers, usually VP level & up. a seniority perk, in a way, given the hierarchical corporate culture of local banks.
sometimes it’s not even internal policy that drives this practice, but an “incidental” benefit if the SVP heading Loans happens to be an old-timer with a lot of internal influence, leveraging quality property finds into relationship-building tools with other bank officers he’d like to align with. knowing one is the only way any outsider can get access to such valuable finds.
what surprises many is that there are also properties that should be repossessed and in the market again, except for the fact that the owners may be long-standing bank clients with huge local-branch deposits.
in which case, regional/provincial branch managers tend to send FYI notes to their Credit counterparts in Head Office telling them to go easy on said foreclosure-able properties, rather than risk losing major depositors at the provincial branch level to competing banks, whose deposits may be 50-80% of their branch deposit base.
losing such clients could mean a major drop in branch income, if not outright closure if expenses remain higher than income for very long periods.
btw, provincial branch banking in PH is not for the faint-hearted ” )
Hello Bob, Louis and all, Back in there lots or houses for sale are price higher since it's expected that the buyer will negotiate with the price. thats is why it will go down. If your a good negotiator then the luck is on your side 😉
Hi Dave Starr – Yes, the issue that you bring up about people not being willing to negotiate is very true! I have found this to be particularly true in commercial space. I have found places like office buildings that sat vacant for 5 or even 10 years and the owner would not budge on the price. Very different than back in the States!
Hi Mahdy – While it seems the inverse of what Dave says, your statement is also true! People jack up the price to give themselves room to bargain.
Hi Bob, and everyone else, its good to hear I am the center of your observations, actually I am not offended by anyones comments, the more the merrier, in fact the reason I wrote my posts was to simply point out much of what Bob is saying, the difference with my posts if you examine them is that they dont just give vague insights, they come with examples, the problem with examples or incidents is that it kind of personalizes the issues.
Because it personalizes them, emotions run high, the object of my posts has to be Filipinos, and in some respects, and naturally one becomes defensive, my intention has never been to slight any paticular group of people, if Bob is correct in his assertions, then it seems that renting a house before committing to building a house is the best way forward for those who seek to make a life in the Phiilippines, its very good advice Bob.
I chose not to do that, for my own personal reasons, for one thing, I have studied carefully over the last 2 years, the rising cost of land, I have been in touch with other couples, and noted what a square metre of land cost 2 years ago to what it costs now, did you know price hikes as much as 30 per cent or more have taken place over the last 2 years, and please please please, dont tell me its not true, I have witnesses it for myself.
Many factors are coming into the realms of real estate buying, for example, Negros Occidental is now awaiting the opening of the new Negros International airport, land prices are going up very quickly, as we are only 15 minutes from the new airport, everytime I have looked into buying a lot, the price per square metre has changed, it may only be a few thousand here and there, my advice to anyone is simply this, if you are considering building a house in the future, try and secure your lot as soon as possible, as Louis says in his post, the cost of building materials is going up.
And there is no point in saying they will stay stable in the future, because Bob has already said himself in a previous post, the buying power of the U.S. Dollar has deflated by 20 per cent, (do you remember that Bob) the buying power of the Euro and the Sterling is slightly down on the last 3 years, but not much to make a major difference.
I have recently spent a subsancial amount of my money on building materials, trust me when I tell you, the prices of building materials are going up, inflation is running fairly high at present in the Philippines, the only difference between the Phiippine real estate market and our own back in UK, is that Philippine houses and if you seperate these from the land they sit on, are not appreciating assets, in other words, as Lous and others have said, building the 15 million mansion will not get you a 15 million or more return if you decide to sell it, thats why I was mindful about building a mansion and anyway I couldnt afford to do so.
When I consulted a well known Filipino trusted accountant in Bacolod City, he advised me that land on its own, i.e. Lots were a good investment, since the price was appreciating, he also advised me that there was little or no maintenance on a lot, and if you had no intention of building on it, it was an excellent investment, just look around many of the sub divisions in the Philippines, many of them have lots of open area's vacant spaces, where someone has bought the land but has no intention of living on it, or in fact building a house, they have been bought for investment purposes.
Back to Bob's point, if you are planning to live permanently, the try before you buy option is a great way to find out if you are suited to the Philippines, I am also mindful that the reason you would want to try before you buy is because you are married to a FIlipino citizen who has hopes of returning home to live one day, I'm not sure how she would feel if you said " I will give it a whirl to see how I feel" what happens if you don't like it ? as so many do not ? as Bob says, they end up leaving and going back to foreigner land.
Even the best laid plans don't always work ! I might take some stick here at this blog for going ahead full steam, buying my plots of land, building my house, ok so I went full commitment, in 5 years time I hope to make my life in the Philippines a semi permanent arrangement, the only difference is, I made the decision not to go in 5 years time and start looking to build my home, in 5 years time, the prices will have risen by at least 40 per cent or more, as I have no intention of ever selling my home, the re-sell issue just never came up, with all the money we have spent on our home, and if you see it, you will think its beautiful, I am very proud of our achievements.
It easy to sit on the fence and look over, taking a plunge of course is an entirely different proposal, and of course having the money to complete the task is also a major consideration, its well known that people who caution others about entering into a paticular venture, either 1. dont have the money to do it, are envious because they themselves would want to do it, but financial constraints dont allow them to.
Everyones personal circumstances are different, timing is something for each individual to decide if its right for them, in my case, I made a business decision that it was right to do so at that time, whether it be wrong or right, the decision has been made, the money has been spent, the secret of course is as Bob says, not to try and build houses that you would expect to have in the West, P10 Million to P15 Million will simply not sell for years if at all, Filipinos do not have that kind of money, I am happy with my investment and my home – and after all thats whats important right !
Hi Pete – Don't take anything I have written wrong. I am not anti-Pete, believe me. I am just kind of reiterating what I have said before, and using the things that you wrote publicly as an example for others to look at. I believe that you can make it here, but it will take adjustment on your part. When Feyma has read the things that you've said here, she has turned to me and said "Pete is just like you were when we came here." I see you as a mirror of myself, albeit 7 years ago. It takes time to adjust, and if you are willing to give yourself that time, you will make it here! 😀
Exactly Bob! That's what I'm doing with the place I'm buying now. It's in one of the better subdivs here in Davao and the guy that owns it now was desperate to sell because he wants out. They wanted 6M for the place and I just said "Look, I'll give you 3M for it final offer." and they took it. They wanted to sell it with the furniture, car, plants… everything. I'll take the plants but the furniture is from Boulevard and I have my own anyway. As for land I have heard that Samal land is a good investment right now as it just keeps going up however any kind of beachfront property carries extra paperwork so consult with a good realtor before buying. I think part of the reason that houses depreciate here is because of the wear and tear that the weather does on a house. Plus termites are always a threat. I know when Lea calculated the value of the house I am buying the land was worth more than the house… that's certainly a change from the US. I know I have many things I need to adjust to, and I certainly sympathize with Pete, because I also see myself in what he is having problems with. I also know for me there is no going back to the US. I am married now and committed to my wife which means come hell of high water I am here for good.
Good Day All:
The more that I read the more I realize how good my wife and I have it here and that the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. That is one of the good things by observing and learning before acting. Over the past several months it has become obvious that are frustrations and yes some bigotry by both cultures toward the other.
Last night I had a conversation with a gentleman who is presently in the states who had moved his family to the RP. They are there and he is now back here trying to make a living to support them. His original idea of a business there has not taken off the way that he wanted. When returning here he is finding that he no longer has a career and has been looking to find jobs to make money to send back. He is now working two jobs and it exhausted and still does not seem to make enough to get back there for any length of time. He has many ideas about he can do to earn money part of the year and send it back and then spend part of the year in the RP.From where I stand he miscalculated and it going through exactly what I would not want to happen.
I listen to the descriptions of, oppressive heat, the need for air conditioning, (which I hate), constant biting insects, surrounded by abject poverty, cultural frustrations, demanding friends and relatives, and it really makes me wounder why I would want to relocate there. Here we own our house, our vehicles, all aspects of my business. We own nothing to the bank and by noting on time payments. My wife has a steady job with benefits and reasonable pay. I work at what I like, when I want, with who I want and how I want. The fall is fast approaching which is my favorite time of the year. The vibrant colors, the cool crisp mountain air, the walk in the woods with my bow. Being one with nature. Why would I want to relocate I find myself asking? My answer is becoming I am not so sure that I do. Life is pretty dam good right here and my wife has no strong desire to return to the RP long term. She kind of likes being here. The schools in this rural area are well disciplined and have excellent quality of education. Why would I consider leaving. Well there is one thing. The winters are getting longer and colder as I grow older. Maybe I just need to throw more wood in the stove and stay worm with my wife on those cold winter nights.
So why would I want to leave, and relocate to the RP? I'm not so sure I want to anymore after reading all of these posts and talking to some of the people who have moved.
Oh and these stories of cultural frustrations are a real eye opener, and are growing very old and tiresome.
The very interesting things about this blog are the downside as well as the positives that are aparent to all of us with some experience of life in Mindanao.
I think these things are well balanced in this blog in that positives are stressed but negatives are discussed. I think Pete got overly stressed about some small cultural invonveniences and will deal with them more easilly as Bob does now he has aclimatised and as per advice to Pete above
The real estate issue is interesting (i myself have purchased and hope i haven't made a mistake….)…i have enjoyed reading all advice given here both from ex-pats and also from commenting people
Americanlola always comes out with some balanced and astute comments which i do appreciate. There are winners and loosers in the real estate business (Louis could have in theory paid 6m but paid 3) timing and luck are involved as well as knowledge of local conditions but i do appreciate the discussion of topics here and i think most comments are relevant
Like Pete says, its up to everybodies individual decision and i think if things like ac, insects and humidity worry Wayne, then his decision may be made for him, i do not find the discussions of cultural issues tiresome at all i find them a catalyst for discussion
rambling on here, good luck to all
Hi all,
Louis did pretty well in that deal of your property (in my perspective, since half the price you can't beat that). It is really a matter of bargaining ability. Thumbs up on that! I think that is one good quality of a good businessman.
Wayne, your friends’ situation is sad. He hasn’t foreseen everything. That is why everyone here gives an advice that one should rent first to get the jig, one should be careful or one should have a saving/investment/pension/etc. to dip in times of the situation you just mention above. One should be careful with managing their money even if it looks like everything is cheap back there in Pinas. If not manage well, money will run off in a blink of an eyes.
Hi Louis – The property deal sounds like a good one for you! Good luck with that.
Hi Wayne – What this blog is about is telling people what it is really like to live here. There is good, and there is bad. This blog aims to educate people before they come, and let them make an informed decision on what they do. Some will be drawn here and will move, others will decide to stay home. Neither of those groups are wrong, they just have different needs and desires. For me, after making the adjustment, I have no desire to go back. Others can't make the adjustment (or don't want to), that's OK too. If you decide that you are already where you want to be, no harm in that. If that is what is best for you, I wish you well, and just hope that we have a chance to meet when you visit here. We all have a journey, and each of those journeys can lead us in different directions.
Hi rick – Thanks for sharing your "rambling" (as you call it). I enjoyed hearing your thoughts.
Interesting info on realestate. Actually, it made me feel better about something I've been considering — buying an attractive plot of land and sitting on it until early retirement and even then I'll rent first to be sure I want to spend the money on a house that I won't be able to sell (even if it's modest by American standards). At least the land seems to be a safe investment and even if I decided to sell it I wouldn't care too much about making money, just not losing money. Land also doesn't require maintenance so it's easier to sit on for years without much attention besides keeping squatters at bay.
Practicing the lifestyle before moving there? Interesting idea. In fact, I just realized I already do it!! For example I had plans to get up at 7 am and start washing our driveway and then sealing it. It's a huge driveway parking area with two islands in it and enough space to park at least 20 cars (the previous owner must have loved asphalt). It's been on my "to do" list all summer. But here I am at 11 am reading the blog and checking email. No worries…I'm a teacher and it's summer (but it will be over soon). Well, it will be lunch time soon so no point starting now, right? It can wait… I'll just change the list title from "Tuesday" to "Wednesday"… 😆 Mady and I are often late to family gatherings or dates with friends. I just blame it on "filipino time" even though I'm the one who almost always makes us late! I should fit right in….no one will ever expect me to be on time! I love it!!!
I'm just trying to second Bob's comment to Wayne re: this blog. Bob said "What this blog is about is telling people what it is really like to live here." I believe the blog's target readers are people who wanted to move, or retire, or even just thinking of moving or retiring in RP. However, I do believe, Bob and other authors welcome others who just wants to take a peek of what it's like living in RP.
Let's just respect expats who are living there, the ones who will be moving there, and the ones thinking of moving there. It's just like saying to the group of medical interns that "Oh! I'm glad I didn't study medicine, life of interns are hell." For me this attitude is not helpful. These people need a sound analysis for the decision they made, and lots of encouragement for the newbies, like Pete. 🙂
Wayne, I know you don't have a bad intent of your comment but the tone just seems different. 🙂 I think you and your wife have a good life, financially speaking, wherever you are. Good for you. But as you can see, like in Bob's case, his move to Davao was the best decision he made. Speaking as a US citizen and a resident, we will be financially alright here (or I hope). However, thinking of retirement age, I think I will enjoy it more spending in RP (or maybe not). But again, this is a couple's decision, it can't be one-sided. Though, I still have at least 30 yrs. to retire, I'm reading this blog to gain insights. My hubby doesn't want to retire there, but hey! he may changed his mind too. Worst case will be, we'll end up retiring here, but go to RP every year!
And just back to the topic of real estate, it used to be location, location, location. However, NPR mentioned it last week- timing, timing, timing. 🙂
Good Afternoon Everyone:
Hi Bob:
Your site is doing exactly what you intend it to do. The information that I have gained here from you and others is absolutely invaluable. That fact can never be stated strong enough from my point of view. No matter which way we go it will be a better informed decision because of you , this site and the people that post here. Even when I'm grumpy and do not agree with someone I am still learning things.:wink:
Before finding your site and from the other material I had studied, I had strong positive feelings about relocating there, and all the way up until I found out what kind of pressure Jo would be under if we moved back to her village. That really made me sit up and look again. Since then there have been a number of small things that have really made me reexamine this subject. Only because of the objectivity that you have here would I be able to give a more informed look at all the different aspects of relocating. I have gone from most likely to,,,too, I am not sure and have decided that it must take more time to figure it out. My biggest concern is what I mentioned about that gentleman who is back here in the US. We both know him and I am genuinely concerned for him.. What he is going through is exactly what I do not want to happen to us. So I am being cautious. Thanks again to you and all of the objective posters here for your insites. They allow for an informed and knowledgeable decision rather than just a dream. This is not something to be taken lightly. I/We have to decide what is best for Jo & I, and I in no way want to make her unhappy by forcing something half thought out on her.
Hi Mahdy:
Yes I really feel for the guy. I wish there is away I could help but I know that there is not. He does not seem detoured though, and has several ideas of things he could do to make his dream come true. He is a smart and industrious person and has succeeded before from what I can tell. I think he will again. Thanks for you concern.
Hi Rick:
You may not know that I am a guide. I spend huge amounts of time outdoors often in remote areas of the north east. Biting insects are a way of life here and one of the reasons I like to have clients along is that the bugs prefer their delicate skin to my old shoe leather tough skin. So they are not worrisome. What is as far as the RP goes it the fact of diseases such as Dengay Fever & Malaria. Friends of my wife who live in some of the different provinces that we might settle in have warned us about both long before I ever read anything by Bob about it.
As far as the heat, it seems to bother my wife more that it does me. In fact temperature extremes tend to bother her more. That is one of the reasons she is not crazy about going back there. Once again those are things to take into account before making informed decisions. So no decision is clear as you seem to indicate. In fact it is very far from it.
The topics of cultural differences is not getting so old. What is, is what appears to be the complaining about it. That is getting old. Given some of those posts were most likely not written with that intent, but sometimes that is the way they come off. I for one like to know and study different cultural behaviors. I just believe that when in Rome do as the Romans do, and do not "bitch" about it. I do not think it is right to live or visit some place and find fault with how things are done there. Our way is no better than theirs and theirs no better than out. Just different, and that is the way I feel it should be viewed and discussed in an objective manner. Not from one of emotion. That is all I meant.
You are correct American Lola is a woman that seems to have one of the most even keeled outlooks of any person I have ever encountered in any way shape or form. She will never know just how much respect that she has gained from me because of her demeanor and thoughtfulness. She is someone that when it comes to objective knowledge of the RP that I look up to.
Hi Lea:
No there was no negative intent in my previous writing. It was just musing in the written word about the fact that because Bob's blog is so broad that in the long term you can gain enough information that you can see almost all sides. Which for me makes me want to stop and think and study.
Yes we are fairly financially secure here in NH and one of my questions is would we be that secure there. I'm not sure and Jo does not think so. In any event a move like this takes a lot of studying, planning and the ability to adapt at the drop of a hat.
Best to you all.:smile:
Ηι Βοβ which things they is these that give permision this persons which them do not only interest the Philippines other to make criticism and to fly poison as soon as they find occasion .This conversation if like the Blog as him they do not also read as not they write I remained the Blog yours me it saved from a lot of situations and I make new drawings for the Philippines.
Regards
Hi Bob-I don't think anyone who comes to stay in the Philippines and builds a house does so in order to make a profit on the eventual sale of the house, or do they?
Well I first owned the land for over 20 years before deciding to build on it. you could say I considered my options very well. Five Presidents later we built our house to our design at our cost and nowhere near the 10 million I might add but comfortable for two and the odd weary traveller now and then. I had no illusions that we would eventually sell for a handsome profit if we decided to pack in and come back to the UK. Instead when we built it I thought our kids would eventually have a house if they ever wished to visit their relatives or at some stage knock the house down and just retain the lot for whatever the future may hold for them.We just want to enjoy our house whilst we have our health and we don't care what happens after that as you cannot take it with you when you go.
Hi Jon – Unless you pay the "Kano price" for real estate, you should be able to flip it and at least get your money back later on. This does not seem too risky to me. By the way, Jon, sounds like you are putting in lots of practice on Filipino time!
Hi Lea – Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Hi Wayne – I'm glad that the blog has provoked thought for you to make the decision that is right for your family.
Hi Zois – Thanks for your thoughts!
Hi Jim – You are right, I don't think most ex-pats come here looking to make a profit on any house that they build. Just being able to get out what you paid into it can be difficult, though, especially for those who build an expensive place!
Hi Bob,
Those prices in your article are they based on monthly or weekly rental costs?
Hi Richard – Those figures are for monthly rental costs.
Bob,
What are you using as a basis for desirable and undesirable features for a foreigner?
Hi Bruce – Not a nipa hut comes to mind! 😆 The ability to put in an aircon. Not made from native materials, like a shack made of coco lumber and such. Not a dirt floor. Toilet inside the house. Those are some thoughts off the top of my head.
Bob,
Ok, I was wondering since Elenas home was small but comfortable, and one bedroom, hers thank GOD, had a hole in the wall for an aircon. I would like a little larger rooms, more outside area for a decent garden.
But I know what you mean about the poorer homes.
I do think a house framed with lumber would be better suited than block because of the earthquakes
Thanks for the response.
Hi Bruce – Personally, I would not touch anything built with lumber. In only a short time the termites will eat it up, and you're in for major repairs. Speaking of Elena's house, that is the sort of place that is going for around P10k to P15k these days. Of course, I haven't seen the inside of her place, but I saw the exterior when we dropped you guys off after dinner one night. I would consider that to be a decent place for a foreigner.
good subject Bob, something very tangable to chew on…from a reader stand point who is planning on living there perhaps you could expand upon this subject in the near future. Such as giving size ( sq. mtrs) anemities, locale and such along with price on on several grades of housing in your area? I have found comparable of those advertised on the net v/s what I have personally seen in the Cebu area are significantly different. Apparently those on the net are asking a premium in hopes of getting foreigners.
😀 I think it would be fun to live in a grass hut with a beautifull phillipina woman and just relax and not worry about big rent….have a tv and a few other fun things and just enjoy life…
On the more serious side of things I do not think that 15,000php is that bad for a half way decent place to live…of course still being here in the states I am used to rent a lot higher than that and 15,000php or aroound $350.00 USA dollar will not get u much for a place to live..and for sure not get you a house in most places here in the states. So I quess it goes back to some of your other interesting things you have shared here before…a person needs to have a idea of what they can live on there with the income they have available.
I always enjoy reading the posts you make Bob and that your Wife makes also and some of the other people here also …very interesting and a good learning experience also…
Hi Brian – In general, it is a good idea to avoid the internet sites with real estate for sale or rent. Prices are generally inflated a lot, just as you say – they are hoping to catch a foreigner who doesn't know the real value. That being said, there are a few sites that are pretty good, though, although I would not choose to personally endorse them publicly here.
Hl Bob In June when we met up. I spent a lot of time looking at houses to buy and to rent . botth with my filipina wife and she went on her own without the kano. this way she gets the filopio price. Conclusion for my family . if you move todavao rent donot buy notuntillyou are atleast a bit more strretwise. lots of housesup for sale owned by kanos and they can not sell.rent if you want something reasonabe in adecent area then you need to budget 25000 amonth minimum.
Hi Bob. was wondering if you might like to take a stab in another article at covering building costs there in Davao. Here in Dumaguete we have a builder that will give you a turn key house with pretty good quality fixtures ie: tiolets, showers, sinks, kitchen cabinets, floors, lights, doors, windows, concrete roofs, solid earthqauke proof foundation, german plumbing piping, grounded and quality electrical wiring ,quality block and poured cement, rebar, everything a westerner would appreciate,etc…. for about 20,000sqm at the high end of his picing. all you need to supply are appliances. I would think Davao should be cheaper as it is a bigger place with more sources. Dum is actually high priced as a result of the influx of foreigners willing to pay. I have a proeprty on Samal I want to build next year. I understand you have prop there as well so if mine works out you will have a good ref point.The more detail you can provide the better if you are so inclined with an article of that nature. thanks
HI Bob I feel honored that you would call me a friend. Elvie and I had a good time with you yesterday and we realy apreciate you going out of your way to show us around a bit.
That house that was 14k realy looked nice from the front and might even have a bit of a yard, if we don't find something better in the next week or so we may just have a look at it. I realy liked the area it was in too. Being a bit of a penny pincher I would like to find something cheaper if we can though. For me its a matter of spending all now or saveing for the future. Anyway after I get aclimated to the Philippines and hopefully learn a bit of the language we might just move out to a smaller town to save money. Just not sure if it would be a good idea to dive in head first without looking 😉
Bob, Marlou's old house rented for 12,000 unfurnished or 15,000 furnished. Its one of two (upper and lower). I have heard that its available or coming available again. The land lady is wonderful. The address is 14 Jade. If your friend is still looking I would recommend stopping by to take a look. In response to your comment about cost via a web site you are so correct. I originally found the house Marlou lived in via a web site and the asking price was 18,000 unfurnished. Marlou went to see it, started talking with the owner and she rented it for as I stated 12,000. At the time brand new-3 bdrm, 2 bath, gated little compound-very nice. Ron
Just like to add my pennies worth re the websites that are advertising rent and sales of property there in Davao. They are very inflated prices, but i guess if some foreigners are going for them then more fool them. It certainly pays to shop around and take your time and of course let your wife/gf be the 1st contact with the owner for the best price.
One website is also actually charging the rentee a months rent for finding the said property. i have never heard before that the rentee has to pay its usually the owner who pays the agent the fee for finding someone to rent the property. I guess its "Only in the Philippines"
I'm wonder if the credit crunch and the US going into recession and house prices tumbling if that will have an effect on the Philippines housing market? And/or have an effect on OFWs sending less money home? and hense effect the peso?
Graham….
Bob,
Living in Florida, I know about termite problems in building but there are ways to avoid it. Masonry is fine to prevent termites, but the walls crack with earthquakes and plumbing, in a cracked walls can crack too.
Most termites are subterranean and will die if they are in sunlight. They tunnel through the soil to enter the structure. If you build the slab higher than the level of soil, or come up a few courses of masonry block and then build with lumber, you solve the problem.
I have some design ideas for security bars for windows that can be popped out or opened in case of a fire so inhabitants can escape. Seeing the welded bars over windows I could just imagine how many deaths have occurred that could have been prevented there.
I found a place that was 4 br, really nice lookin on the pictures and best of all P7,000/month. The day I was supposed to look at it though it was rented privately bythe landlord, *%@(%! This is the 3rd time something like this has happened to me since I moved here. Oh well back to the search. Cebu has some bargains also. My friend rents a 2 br townhome for P8,000 month and not far from him a relatively new 3br townhome is advertised at P10,000/month. However I could never live in Cebu, too crowded. The biggest problem I have right now is that alot of the places I find come with the description "In a guarded and gated community" umm no. 7 months in a guarded and gated community has proven to me that I absolutely hate it. I want the vendors, I want the sari-sari's I want the easy transportation.
Hi Frank – Oh yes, I remember your house hunting adventures! Ha ha… Well, I feel you are right in your prices and everything.
Hi Corey – I would probably avoid making a post about building costs, because I am not experienced on that. I have never built anything here, and I feel that such an article by me would be inaccurate. After we get started in building our house in Samal, I will do that, though.
Hi John H. – Of course, I would call you a friend! Feyma and I enjoyed getting together with you guys, and we hope that you have good luck in finding the right place to rent! Hope to see you soon!
Hi Ron – We did drive past there the other day, but didn't see any "For Rent" signs! I guess that they didn't get around to putting one up yet, or the house is not quite on the market yet. I was encouraging John to try to rent here in Marfori, though, because I really love this neighborhood. Thanks for the tip!
Hi Graham – Thanks for backing me up on the websites issue! Regarding the problems in the US housing market, I don't think it will have a huge effect here. It seems that OFW money is rushing into the country and pushing the value of the Peso so far up! I expect that to continue.
Hi Bruce – Good luck on the termites! So far, I have never seen anybody who could stop them. Even using treated lumber does nothing to stop the termites here. If you could come up with a solution for that, you could probably earn a living here! Seriously.
Hi Louis – We lived in a gated community for a year (Woodridge). Like you, we decided we didn't care for the lifestyle.
Hi Bob, ive been reading your blogs for sometime now. I got an email from a local website here in davao regarding houses for rent and i received one today. Your friend might be interested to see it. Below are the details:
located at 190-B Hyacinth St. Alpha Homes, Matina Davao city.rent is 9000pesos
3 flrs. Two BDrm
2 CR.
with Garage.
Contact number po.
09177024671 – maricel
09163016953 – naz
Hi Alyn – Thanks for passing that along! I am sure my friend will see it and check into it.
Hi Bob,
We had two houses around 5,000 to 7,000 last week. But it got taken after a few days. Right now, the cheapest we have in the website is Php12,320.00 . It's a 2 bedroom, 1 CR apartment. Unfurnished and not so big. If someone wants a two-storey house with at least 3 bedrooms and 2 toilet/bathrooms, please expect to pay Php15,000.00 or more. These are located in nice neighborhoods as well. Meaning, no shanties in the vicinity. In gated subdivisions, the prices are sky high!
I was told several times that our prices are so expensive. I'm sorry about that but there's nothing I can do. These are owner's prices (not ours) and it's the going rate in Davao, nowadays. Unless you want to live in a low cost housing unit, which if lucky we can get P3,500.00 per month rent. I try so hard to look for cheap houses so I can also serve my other clients but it's very difficult to find one. Once I do, we also have a waiting list. Hence, most of the time it does not reach our website anymore.
RE: website that charges fee: please never pay them. It's unethical for a License Broker to ask payments from the client. We are being paid by the owners of the said houses. If a broker does that to you, please report her/him to the Department of Trade and Industry. That's the government agency that takes care of unethical/illegal agents.
Hope this helps. Thank you and God bless.
Lea C. Walker
REB License No. XI-06-361 http://www.davaoproperties.com
Hi Lea – I was hoping that you would stop by and make a comment on this – thank you for doing so. I believe what you say pretty much confirms my feelings. Bargains do pop up, but in general, expect to pay P10 to 15k here in Davao for a monthly rental price. It wasn't many years ago when you could get a very nice place for that price, and places between P5k and P10k were common, but it seems that those days have already passed.
Thank you, Lea (and John) for helping people find affordable housing!
I wonder if there are apartments for sale outside Manila and Cebu. Next year I would be looking to buy a one or two bedroom appartment in Visayas or eastern Mindanao. Can a foreigner buy townhouse or only apartment? Can anybody help with some information?
I have to say I am dissapointed. John and Lea are the most ethical people I know and I consider them very near and dear friends. Someone on here and you know who you are went around their back and cut them out of the deal so to speak. Is this fair? Is this ethical? I really expected better out of this person, so sorry for me I was wrong.
Philip – A foreigner cannot own any property over here. You can rent, or if you are married to a Philippine citizen you can buy and make the property conjugal marital property.
Hi Philip – as a foreigner you can indeed own a condo. But foreigners can own only up to 40% of the condos in any certain unit.
Hi Louis – I don't know who you are talking about, but if you, John or Lea think that I cut them out of a deal it is not true. I have shown some people around to different places that I know of for rent, but never when the Walkers were involved that I am aware of. Why cut them out, after all, commissions come from the owner of the house anyway. Anyway, i doubt you are talking about me, because I've never done it, but just want to make that clear.
hi
Hi thomas, how are you? Is there something we can help you with?
wow bob i didnt think you would answer me now yes there is i have just sent you rather a long message on commets but it would be nice if we could communicate now
Hi thomas – I just left a reply on your other message (on the Mindanao Blog). Let's have coffee when you come to Davao!
Well if anyone is interested, my landlady has a 1br efficiency apartment open. P8,500/month. If you pay 1 year up front you get one month free rent. Pictures available upon request, just e-mail me @ brspiritus@(nospam)yahoo.com Remove the (nospam) obviously.
Bob – I know this column is about rental but am wondering how would you rate the architects and builders there. In your estimation, is the quality of the new housing getting better and perhaps more attuned to western hemispehe style that you as an American and Europeans may be more accustom to. Do you have any house builders and architect referral you can provide or anyone else for that matter that you have building confidence in. If for example you were going to start building you Samal house today who would you use. Anyway good news that Davao continues to set itself apart as a city of progress.
Bob,
I too have noticed the building boom. On Bacaca road near Diversion there are many new 3 story townhouses and more being built.
Also out near SM mall there is a building of 6 story Condos being built.
So I guess you are correct always feeling the Heart Beat of Davao.
Hi Louis – Thanks for the tip! I hope that your landlord finds a renter as soon as possible! Given the market in Davao, it should not be too much of a problem! 😀
Hi Bruce – Well, I would certainly not claim that I am "always correct" on anything, none of us can claim that with any degree of accuracy. I sure hope that I am right more times than I am wrong though! If you wanted to know if I am ever wrong, just ask Feyma! 😆 I'm pretty sure she would know! 😉
Yes, I have been keeping an eye on those condo units near SM. They seem quite expensive to me (almost P3m for a 60 sq. meter unit), so I am quite interested to see how they sell. I am not fully convinced that Davao is ready for something like that, although I think that it is possible.
Interesting report, Bob. Here in my little town, where as I have mentioned, there is certainly no shortage of single-home style rental properties (mostly all smaller and older) there are several new private enterprise new builds/rebuilds going on, just in the past few months. Most of these projects are not what the average foreigner is looking for, but increases in supply help the strength of the entire market, I think.
One factor I haven't seen much mention of that may help drive a construction increase is that there is both new home financing and rehabilitation loan financing much more readily available now. Banks are actively advertising long-term mortgages, 20 or even 25 year terms, somehting relatively unheard of just afew years ago.
any idea on how much and how many bedrooms those apartments rent for Bob?
Hi Dave Starr – Yes, I do see some banks starting to offer mortgages and such, but the interest rates are quite high compared to what you would get in the west. I feel that as things like home financing and such grow, it could help the Philippines reach a better economic status in the world, offering Filipinos a chance at home ownership and other economic benefit.
Hi Brian – I know some such apartments. One that I know of is a fairly nice 3 bedroom apartment with 2 1/2 bathrooms and rents for about P16,000 per month. Prices vary with things such as location, amenities and such, of course.
Hi Bob! Thanks for leaving a comment in my blog site. My friend living near SM Davao rents a 2-br house for P8,000. Apparently, rentals in Davao are almost the same as the rates in Metro Manila.
Have a nice day!
Hi luna miranda – Actually, these days, finding a place to rent for P8k is difficult in Davao. You can find something for 10k, but not easily. For most foreigners, they should budget P15k to find a decent place, in my estimate.
Nice website you have there! I'll visit again soon!
Hi Bob, Marlou's family (Estuarts/Marforis) just held a huge family reunion in Davao. From the pictures we received about 100+ plus families were represented. The majority of these families came from the U.S. and the majority of those from California. Many of them bought homes while on this reunion trip and some are financing or building apartments in Davao. I think you will see more of this over the next few years. The Filipino baby boomers are cashing in their 401s, selling their homes and returning to retire. I think its great since they will only improve the quality of life in Davao for everyone. Ron and Marlou
I notice to that they have started to build Condos in Davao I think its a very good move im just surprized that they have never done it before. I agree with Bob though they look a bit pricey and almost Manila prices. Shame that they have come in so high, i would of thought come in low and build the prices up. Samal would be nice to build Condos but really need the bridge to be built 1st, if ever! 🙁
talking about rentals
I hope to be back in Davao late February(this month) and looking for small appartment circa 10k to rent(1 yr) ive tried many of the websites but i think they over inflate the prices. Still looking if anyone knows anywhere will be much ablidged 🙂 [email protected] i think i be forced to rent aparatelle for a month 1st then look.
Hi Bob — i did some research on that new condo plans after reading about it here. The units seem pretty small, but for those who are used to small urban living, it seems intriguing. I've come to prefer condo living here but i know there will be huge differences (separate laundry rooms?). But it sure piqued my interest.
Here is a link to that Filinvest property: http://oneoasis.wordpress.com/2008/01/14/one-oasi…
Stumbled into this link as well while doing the research. It has the front facade layout and a mention of other Davao plans (like an Ayala mall — another mall? actually quite a scary thought in regards to added traffic). http://kymoie.multiply.com/journal/item/10/2008_w…
Many websites do overinflate their prices, I know of a couple western style apartments for rent on Lea's website, but those rent in the 12-13k/month range.
Hi Ron LaFleur – Sounds like a great reunion! I really believe you are correct that a lot of Filipinos are retiring, or at least dipping into their retirement funds in order to finance a return home and putting those dollars at work here. It's a good sign for the Philippines.
Hi Graham – I think it will be hard to find that place for P10k, but I hope you can!
Hi macky – Yeah, I have been aware of the Ayala development that is coming in Bajada. I'm pretty excited about it, because I like Ayala, generally better than SM. It will add something new to Davao, and hopefully won't bring too much more traffic to the area! 😆
Hi Louis – very true!
Condos in Samal?!? the current amount of development is already frightening. Water/Sewage/Electricity could become interesting in the chinese sense, within just a few years….
Hi Bob,
It is interesting to note that the apartments here aren't much more expensive than those in Davao. And that the BPOs and call centers have extended their reach outside of Metro Manila (like in Davao, Cebu, etc.) This makes the south even more inviting! Let's just hope the building of infrastructure does not compromise the preservation of nature.
Thanks for sharing! Cheers!
Hi Alan Mark – I just got home from a journey to Samal. There is indeed a lot of development going on there, but there is plenty of room for it too. Feyma and I were talking while we were there that it seemed to be in line to be the next Boracay. That has good sides and bad sides.
Hi Migs – If you don't mind my asking, when you say "here" where are you talking about? In other words… where are you based? Based on the things you mentioned, I suspect that you are in Manila, but am not certain.
Oh, sorry about that, Bob. Yes, I am in Manila, the city I schizophrenically love.
Hi Migs – Thanks for filling me in. You love the place? Well, somebody has to I guess! 😉 Just kidding… Manila is just too big and too busy for my taste, I just hope that Davao doesn't end up there too!
Vicki,
I am an Architectural Project Manager from the States living in Davao. If you ever want a house designed in American Functionality, Filipno or any combination I would glad to help you design it. I could also look for a builder to work with to get it built for you. Just email me through my sites
I wrote somehting abouit this recently on on eof myown sites, but got no comments … I thought I'd toss it out to this group, especially becuase Bob has several real estate professionals who read/contribute regularly:
When we say 'condo' everyone thinks of a (typically) small apartment in a high rise building.
But condominium is also a legal form of property ownership where a corporation owns the physical assets and sells the rights of use to the 'owners'. That's what you get when you 'buy a condo' in a high risse … the rights of use only, the condominium corporation owns everything except the air and the door key.
I'm wondering why, staying strictly within the Philippine legal systems .. 60% Philippine ownership, etc., a corporation couldn't buy a plot of land, build single family homes on it and sell individual units as condominium units, exactly as if they were apartment-style units in a single building,
Certainly seems to me as if it could be done legally … I'm wondering if this has already been tried or if I am missing something here?
Hi Dave Starr – Interesting observation! It is something that I had never thought about, and I don't know the answer. I believe that this could be an excellent business opportunity for one of the big development companies.
Hi Bob,
I'm an American married to a Filipina and living in the states. We're interested in Davao for relocation. Unfortunately the US housing market is falling while, it seems, the Davao prices are climbing, and I need to sell out here to be able to buy or build there.
My question is why are you renting rather than building or buying? I'm not prying into your personal business; I'd just like to get a better understanding of what appear to be some discrepancies between the conventional wisdom that it's inexpensive for Americans to live in the Philippines, and some of the high prices I'm seeing for houses there.
Thanks,
James
Hi James – Firstly, I am quickly coming to the conclusion that the idea the "conventional" wisdom is no longer that accurate, and I'll be writing about that soon.
Regarding why I rent, I have addressed that many times on the blog, perhaps you missed those articles. Read here, here and here to get an idea.
That being said, as I have also written repeatedly, Feyma and I bought a piece of land on Samal Island last year, and we plan to build a house there. We won't live there for about 9 more years, because it does not fit in with plan for our kid's education (there are no good private schools on the island, and thus we won't live there until our kids are all in college).
Thanks Bob,
You really did address the rental issue before, and you've convinced me it's wise to rent initially. I think I'll uncover more info on my own now that I got smart and started to use your Google site search utility.
Thanks,
–James
Hi James – good luck in your search for your ultimate residence. I do think that renting at first is the right move! n Good luck also with the site search! 😆
Hi Bob
Hi Bob
It seem that you are the man (again) to contact in regards to anything DAVAO, thanks for that, anyway, myself and my filipina gf are looking to move to Davao and have so much we need to know,
my biggest problem is knowing where to look for a rental apartment,,and if we are getting a good deal or not, i have never been to davao and have no idea ,we are going to visit and see if we fit in with the life there in april.we are looking forwrad to meeting you to say thanks in person.
Hi Bob
If you have any websites that can give us info on all the little ??s that need answers when moving,like, med insurance, book shops,newspaper ad prices,expat clubs or any one of the dozens of ??s i have,if anyone has this info,,please please let us know, we are looking to start our life over in DAVAO and hope to make some new friends asap.i am from uk,but seems that most in davao are from us,
also, is it allowed for me to work even if i am married to my filipina ,??
as always bob,
thanks,
Hi Steve – Most of the questions that you are asking are already answered here on this site. I will give some cursory answers here, but if you search the site there are detailed posts on nearly every one of these subjects.
1. Medical care is cheap here. We do not have health insurance, because we can easily handle the cost to pay for care ourselves. There are several medical insurance packages available through PhilHealth, Blue Cross and PruLife.
2. Book shops. In Davao, you have basically two choices for books – National Bookstore, and some of the used book kiosks in malls. Choice is very limited. I wrote a whole series of articles on this last month on how and where to get books.
3. Newspaper ad prices – cheap.
4. Expat organizations. There are two that I know of. Friends of Mindanao (do a search on my Mindanao Blog for more info http://www.Mindanao.com) and the other is called "Union of Foreigners."
5. There are lots of foreigners here in Davao, you should have no problem making new friends here.
Honestly, this site covers nearly every possible aspect of living here in the Philippines. Read the site, do a search for specific topics, it should answer all of your questions.
I'd be happy to meet you when you are in Davao.
im looking for housing in Davao City. I will be visiting there for a month so Im looking for a two bedroom house to rent there for a month starting april 1st. And its just been hard to locate a place any suggestions, advice and or offers will help. Thanks Bob and to all.
Hi Ali King – I'm sorry to say, but I know of no houses that can be rented on a month by month basis. Problem is that every house I know of requires a one year lease. Sorry, if I knew of anything I'd be very happy to assist you.
have you moved to samal island yet? that's a 45 min boat ride from davao….
Hi ronnie – I am sorry, but whoever gave you your information is incorrect. The boat ride from Davao City to Samal takes between 10 and 15 minutes (I have made the ride at least 100 times, so I know). As I have said on this site many times, our plans are to move to Samal around 2017 or so, because we want all of our kids to finish school first, before we move. We have already purchased land there and we will start building on our land in the near future.
Hello All,
I am traveling to Davao in November and staying for 4 months and my elderly father is visiting me in January for three months. We each want our own place close to each other with clean air close to the water but also to shopping and such. Is Davao safe for expats and is there nice housing for about 18000p to 20000p??? Any suggestions is greatly appreciated as I have never been in Davao.
Respectfully,
Dave
Hi David Severn- Davao is very safe, and you won't experience any safety issues here, in my opinion. With the amount you have to spend for housing, you can find a nice place in Davao.
Enjoy your visit!
hi bob…i grew up here in davao..its good to hear about that development in davao city…yeah,,,there may really be cheap houses now in the city but what's disappointing is that we still have squatter's areas,,..hope our government will be more serious about this…
Hi Bob. Thanks for putting up this blog which I find very helpful especially for someone like me planning to relocate in Davao. I'm a Filipino and spent all my life in Manila but planning to move to Davao on March.
I did some research and was a bit surprised that rentals are higher than I expected, although still cheaper than Manila prices. I'm planning to go to a college in Davao and will be living on my own so a small apartment would do. My budget is 10000 or less. I've never been to Davao and will be staying in a hotel for a few days once I get there while looking for an apartment/house. Fingers crossed, I really wish I could find a decent place for 10000 or less.
im looking for house to rent.
is your house still available?
and whould you give me the exact adress?
when should i visit there
i wish if u send me back to this e-mail
Hi Bob;
This same advice was given to me years ago, and it is still very good advice today. “I” have never heard of anybody receiving the deposit back. The way you recommend is the best way. I also left the landlord with copies of my paid utility bills upon leaving to insure no problem in the future. I rented until I was 100% (or as close as I could get) to knowing where I wanted to reside, and build a house. I was further lucky as both of my landlords were honorable gentlemen.
Hi Paul – Thanks for that vote of confidence! 😉 Yes, as you said, there will need to be some assurance that bills are left paid too, and copies of receipts are a good way to accomplish that. In all of my time in the Philippines, and many landlords, I have only had one that was not so good.
Hi Bob – I agree, too. Until you’re very sure of where and how you want to live, renting beats out owning. Many renters will agree that time makes the property they lease look less and less appealing and the desire for a change of scenery becomes stronger and stronger.
I think I’m one of the luckiest persons here. Since last Chirstmas time (November), I’ve had six honest offers to purchase our house and I’ve sold three copies of the blueprints. All involved Balikbayan couples who were planning their retirement “back home”!
This would skew any statistical view of renting/owning comparisons – truly a fluke. I’m sure that if I wanted to sell, there’d be no one around! 😀
Hi Paul;
Why is it that when you don’t want to sell, you get all the offers? I’ve received a few in the past, and then I’ll explain that it’s not for sale. Depending on the market in the future, I’d agree with Bob, That I’ll never get back what I put into it, except piece of mind that my wife and our family will always have a place to live, that’s all I really care about. (Bob that’s a nice picture of you and your wife!)
Hi Paul – I fully agree with you that the one big plus to home ownership here is that it can give you the peace of mind that your wife, children and any other family that you care for has a place to stay, in case of your demise.
Glad you like that pic! You know, I just found that on my hard drive, and was asking my wife about it… I had forgotten about that picture, and I like it too!
Hi Paul – Ha ha.. I didn’t even notice! I don’t allow the spelling police to moderate LiP anyway! 😉
Hi Paul – Isn’t it true that there are always buyers when we don’t want to sell! I had a similar (mis)adventure when trying to sell my house in the States before moving here. I do think that overall, for the majority of people, it is a wise move to rent here for a while before making that final decision to spend the money to build or buy a place.
Word usage; Thanks Bob;
I noticed my error while reading your response.
I must remember it’s “I have peace of mind”, or “I’ll give them a piece of my mind”. Lord English ain’t easy! (LOL)
Hi Rob – Ha ha.. I’ve never seen a sign like that!
I like that line, Gary – “I think many people in the US are finding out they should have been renters – but then they weren’t really buyers either, just mortgage payers” – that’s a classic!
I think many people in the US are finding out they should have been renters – but then they weren’t really buyers either, just mortgage payers 😛
I’m in a somewhat unique situation that we already had a house, but when we lived here in the nineties we definitely rented and I couldn’t agree with you more.
Paul T .
You do not speak English it sounds like English but it is not. I really do not know what is going through the minds of ex colonials now a days.
Bob
Please forgive just a couple of friends having a joke.
Buying /Renting always a debate what Paul T mentions really makes sense. A freind in Queson City bought a house he arrived nice and fresh in Queson from the US.Also clueless about local conditons. His missus fell in love with the first house they set eyes on. Bought it straight away moved in everything hunky dorry only to find out they now had the local mafia and a bordello for neighbours. As the old saying goes you cannot beat local knowledge To rub salt into the wounds a couple of months later the wifes family hords of them from the provinces moved in with them. One could say it could drive you to drink in his case thats exactly what it did. Buying property in Phil you really have to be street wise.
Hey Frank;
You are correct again about our speaking of English. With so many of us and so few of you, we’ve just changed the name of the language to “AMERICAN” sounds good, doesn’t? Yes Bob we’re still joking. (lol)
How are you doing buddy?
Hi Frank – No problem on the jokes…
Hi Bob- My thoughts are, by buying a property should anything happen to the man of the house God forbid at least the wife and children would be left with a roof over their heads.Not only would they have a roof they would have an asset.This is just Brit logic, but I find here in the Philippines lots of ex-pats do not own property but have families and nothing back in their own country either to fall back on.
I often wonder what provision if any they have made for the future?
Regards.
Jim.
You are probably Lucky to have the Filipino landlords you have,live in San Diego, California we have the “Landlords From Hell” I think they all go to school just to learn all the rotten tricks and compete to see how many tenants they can screw over each month.
I’m with you Paul! Your plan sounds very good… American!
Hi Bob
What you wrote makes sense. I do have a question. What about short term rental? Is that possible there? Our plan is to visit the Philippines for 5 – 6 months a year, but I have no intention of staying in one place for all that time. I plan to see all of the Philippines over the years. Maybe a month or two with the inlaws around Xmas. We have talked about building a house, but it does not make sense to build a house you may live in for only two months a year. I know you can rent an apartment/hotel room in Manila by the month, but it is expensive. Say I want to spend a month or two in Davao or Cebu. Is it better to just rent at a resort or hotel, or can you rent a house for that time? What makes more sense?
Gonna see all the PI in 6 months?! You are kidding yourself.
Hi Jim – Well, unless the person mis-manages his money, if he doesn’t buy the house, he has the cash to leave for the widow. Buying is a personal decision, though. In general, I support buying a place, my only thing is that the person needs to be sure he is buying/building in the right place, the place where he intends to stay for good. In my case, I am not yet ready to make the commitment.
6 months a year for (I hope) 15 plus years
Hi zeke – there are good and bad people in every country of the world.
Hi Barry – I think that Allan meant that he will be in the Philippines for 6 months or so each year, not see the entire Philippines in just 6 months.
Jack;
A friend of mine bought an existing house; he went to add a second floor to it and discovered it was built with no re-bar. Buyer beware! How will you know if it’s well built?
Hi Allan – Usually, here in the Philippines, the landlord wants a 1 year lease at the minimum. Perhaps you can find an exception, you’ll have to search for it.
Hi Jack – I don’t think that I advised against building in favor of buying an existing place. But, my main advice is to rent for a while until you are certain that you have found the right place, then buying or building.
Bob,
You gave good advise. I will show this post to Juramie. I was thinking about building a place in Leyte but I think I will look for an existing property to save money. We will rent until we are ready to buy. The biggest issue will be finding an existing house that is well built.
Paul has a very valid point, here. Perhaps, it is better to rent, while deciding if the area “works” for you, then have a home built, rather than buy a pre-existing structure.
Though we’ve never rented in The Philippines, my wife & I were planning to offer long-term rentals to foreigners of the beach houses we are constructing on Samal. I hadn’t even considered security deposits, but it makes sense, especially when renting to people who have the ability to leave the city/region/country quickly. I’d hate to be saddled with utility bills and/or damage.
We already have a house rented out in Davao(Buhangin) and just collecting the rent has been a real nightmare. As the couple who rents the house is in their 70s and pays their own utilities, I’ve written the deal off as a charity case. Of course, that doesn’t seem to stop their daughter, in Japan, from calling us whenever something needs repair. Removing delinquent renters is not an easy process in The RP.
Mike
Hi Mike – I think that getting a security deposit is imperative anywhere in the world. You just never know what the renter will do as far as damage, skipping out with unpaid bills and such, so the deposit allows at least some cover for such a situation.
In the US, a rule of thumb to calculate a ballpark sale price for a house is to multiply the monthly rent it can demand by 100. From comments I’ve read here, that factor would be much higher in the RP. Is there an easy explanation for why this is the case?
–James
Hi James – Yes, in the USA, a house can generally bring about 1% of it’s value in monthly rent. In the Philippines, a house owner will get way less than that in rent. For example, our house only rents for about .003% of it’s “supposed” value. I don’t know why, but that is one reason why I said in the article that renting here instead of buying makes good economic sense.
Hi Bob, great topic. One of my renter of my house at Davao near SM moved out and I told them that I will release their one month security deposit after all utilities are cleared so that I wont be hussled when the next renter moves in if utilities left unpaid.
I have a two bedroom 1 bath available 3rd week of march fully furnished at Tulip drive fuente de villa abrille subd. I already told Feyma if you guys know someone who need a place to stay and can email me for more info. This is located in a gated subdivision just 56 sq. meter floor area with hot shower.
I normally ask for 2 months advance rent and one month security deposit. Let me know if you wanted to see the place.
Hi jeff – Yes, Feyma has mentioned to me about your place near SM. If we happen to know anybody looking for a place in the area, Feyma will certainly be in touch. Take care!
I think I can offer some speculation about the low rent compared to the high cost of buying.
First, of those I have met, the universal filipina dream is a ‘fully cemented house” and a “sari sari store”.
It is about how far you can fall if things get bad. Eviction is a honest concern for 100% of renters. If your income is sporadic, your job dependent on political whim, life is so much harder trying to find money when you don’t have a place to live.
Further, family here is from the grandparents down to babies. I am reminded of a guy who can’t buy rice but he has pride that he is the head of a 60 person family who respect him and care for him. If his residence changes 6 times in 10 years, where is that families home?
Here a house is not a home it is a definition of who you are, your life, your community. It is like people asking “where is your place?” and I answer, “Gee, I don’t have one”. Nobody here can comprehend that answer. But people in the USA would understand moving 23 times before I finished high school. The standard request for almost anything in the PI is a “barranguy clearance”. Honest if I could not get one, moving to a new place is no big thing. For locals, changing residences is a really big thing. And being denied a clearance due to a variety of reasons is crippling for the locals, and that is why it is asked for.
Abu Farsi
Hi Abu Farsi – What you describe as “universal” for a Filipina is certainly not so, though. I do understand that you said that what you say is “for those you have met” though. For example, if you asked Feyma if she wanted a “fully cemented house with a sari-sari store” would laugh at you. I would say that would be true with any more worldly Filipina, or person with money.
Renting makes economic sense but the insecurity means you can never really consider the place home. Therefore I’ll be buying a place as soon as I’ve decided where I want to live (which as you say is not something to rush into). Transforming a bahay into exactly the kind of home my partner and I want will be a never-ending labour of love, without the worry that one day the landlord will arrive and tell us we have to leave.
You’re correct that we would be better off financially if we kept renting, but maybe we are getting sentimental in our old age :).
Hi Ken – I can’t argue with you, we will likely end up building a house of our own too. We just have not yet settled where we will be permanently, so it won’t happen yet.
Bob..I would think that any body that is comming to Davao City or to GenSan it would be a good idea for them to get a hold of Feyma. I am sure that she Knows both areas very well and being that she is a Fillipina and from the area she knows the in and outs of how Fillipinos do things and to me be well worth the money to have her do the looking and such. In the long run a new person to those areas looking for housing would be money aheand and grey hairs ahead also…hahah…
Hi Dan – Yes, for anybody coming to Davao, I believe that the service Feyma is providing is a good one. I was just not meaning to make the article an advertisement for her service, though, and also make it applicable to searching for a place anywhere in the Philippines. Thanks for the plug though. 😉
Hi Paul – We certainly are not in Kansas.. heck, we are not even in Oregon or anywhere else in the USA! Things are different here, and one must adapt how they go about doing certain things in order to be effective here.
What I meant by we’re not in Kansas anymore, is here we can’t just call up Century 21 and get listings of rental properties. We here, must search, meet people, and ask around, which would be, to follow the advice you wrote above.
Hi Bob;
As a fellow traveler on the Yellow Brick Road, I should have caught that. Sometimes Dorthy has to drop a house on me so I understand (lol)
Plus, just what is it that Romans do????
Hi Bob- I think the important thing is that Feyma is straight with people about what the deal is ie who she is working for. That in itself is a huge advantage for the Buyer ! lol Plus from what I have read from Feyma even if she ends up getting paid by the agent I have no doubt that the info she gives to the Buyers will be honest with no games being paid – again another huge advantage for the Buyer – and something very hard to find here. Too many “agents ” or finders here try to make a killing on every deal and dont care about their reputation , whereas if Feyma gets know as someone honest and reliable I’m sure the long term dividends will pay off exceedingly well for her.
Hi brian – Yes, it is certainly on Feyma’s to do list. Interesting info on the lady in Manila. I fully agree that having big exposure to western business is a big plus for somebody like Feyma.
Maybe what Feyma is considering doing would be in the line of a Consultant. People consult others in the known on certain things, because they their self lack all the info they need on what ever it is, or need to know more on what ever it is they are lacking information on.
I no most Consultants get paid for their services and so should Feyma and from the sounds of some of the posts..seems some would not want her to get paid for her services.
You do not need a Real Estate License to give people honest direction in what would be a good or bad choice for them or be a Consultant to them as far as what would be a good place to rent or bad place and etc.
Wow! Not bad at all!
Thanks, Ian.
Money ahead…
Hi Bob;
We’re not in Kansas anymore! I remember years ago how difficult it was to find a nice place to rent. I pretty much followed the way you advised above and lucked out twice. But if I could have found a service like Feyma is offering, that would have been invaluable.
One thing you touched on that many newcomers won’t think of. Business cards or calling cards. Many folks never used them in their life, others have and, now retired, don’t want to think of them any more … but for a foreigner, they can be a useful tool.
Even in mall locations you can get 100 or 500 business cards run off for a ridiculously low amount … typically while you wait. The ones I carry just have the URL of my blog and an email acount (that only appears on the card, so I know when I get email from a card contact).
I’m sure these cards have brought some blog readers … but they have been extremely valuable for hunting things down …(I wrute my cell phone number on the card if I want texts or messages). The cheap little cards are also “door openers”. Stopped at ahotel one day where I wanted to ask the mamanger a question at the request of an overseas freind. Theree people behind the front desk with the all-too-typcial answer, “Manager’s not avalable, sir.”
I left a card and asked the desk clerk to pass it on to the manager. She said yes. Turned to go out the door and here came the manager, huffing and puffing with a big story about how she had just arrived back at the hotel … whatever. I git to meet her, got my question answered on the first trip … all becuase of that cheap piece of card stock. Very useful tool.
Hi Paul – Ha ha.. I think you might have misinterpreted what I said in my reply to you. I used to have a very close friend who was also American who lived here. Actually, we are still friends, but he doesn’t live here anymore. Anyway, whenever we would see something a bit unusual, one of us would look at the other and say “we aren’t in Kansas anymore…” the other one would always say “we’re not even in Illinois” or name any other State. It was a little joke between us! When you mentioned the Kansas saying.. it was just an automatic response from me! When in Rome… do as the Romans do! 😉
Good article, Bob! From the states, would your cell number be +639152160300 from the computer or 011639152160300 using a calling card?. I think I asked this question but Yahoo has blew up my old account.
I never would have thought of using a business card. Now, my brain is searching for ideas.
Thanks,
Ed
Hi Dave – I really am in full agreement with you on this. Having a business card (or as they call it here, a calling card) is very important here. It shows that you are serious. It shows that you are not playing around. People think you are an “important person” if you have a calling card. People also treasure getting a calling card, and they save it, almost like a souvenir. Getting one from a foreigner is very special too. And, as you said it is cheap to get them printed up. I have what I consider to be a very nice business card, which has the cartoon picture of me that I am sure most readers have seen before on the site. It is printed on very heavy card stock. I pay a bit extra for a high quality card, but I feel it is worth it.
Ha ha… those Romans are tricky, Paul… you just never know what they are going to do. But, if you are in Rome, you should copy whatever it is that they do! 😉
Hi Bob!
Quick question.
Is Feyma a duly licensed Philippine Real Estate Agent? Meaning did she attended all the schooling and pass the test required by the Philippine government? Or is she working with one on a referral basis? If that is the case, please tell us about the agent’s background.
Thanks
Hi Ed – Yes, the way you put the numbers should be exactly correct if making the call from the States.
Business cards are very important here, even if you don’t have a job! I do recommend that everybody get a business card of their own, and perhaps several different ones! For example, at times in the past, I have used multiple different cards, for different websites or different businesses that I own. I have now consolidated and use just one, but at some point in the future I could go back to using multiple cards again.
In the Philippines, as in most places, real estate agents are operating in a basic conflict of interest. They are paid by the seller, but usually are showing the houses to, and discussing the merits of said houses, to the buyers. Many buyers develop a relationship with the realtor in these circumstances, and dont give much thought that in fact the realtor is being paid for, and acting on behalf of the seller. Some places now require the realtors to sign a disclosure statement – especially if only one realtor is involved- stating that they are being paid by the seller..
Feymar is offering a specialized service, in that she is offering to help buyers find and negotiate upon their behalf, and only upon their behalf. When you are a newbie somewhere, and thus a ready victim, having someone like Feyma on your side can be a really big help. Not only can she save you time, but also can help prevent you from making a huge -and sometimes expensive-mistake when you make a purchase. Especially here in the Philippines where all those consumer laws you are used to that protect you other places just simply do not exist.
As long as Feyma is not accepting any commission or finders fee from the realtors that she refers you to then I would strongly recommend using her services. She is local, she knows the area, she speaks the language, she is no push over, and she knows the games.
Hi John – At this time, Feyma is not a real estate agent, although she is considering becoming one. Currently, she works with a number of licensed agents around Davao, GenSan and other parts of the Philippines. She is not offering real estate services, she is helping our readers make a connection with real estate agents, and also helping our readers by being on their side and guiding them in their dealings with the agents involved to make sure that our readers are not taken advantage of.
Feyma should really think about getting her real estate lic. I know a ameri/filipina(she returned with mother back to RP when she was 15 ..now 35) who 4-5 years ago started a property management/sales business in Manila ( yes I know different market but principle the same) that strictly dealt with expats who owned properties and managed them for them, seems expats prefered to deal with a westernized business mentality/langauge ect, her and partner have done extremely well.
Just asked wiffy about update on her…seems some company bought them out….= to 7 figures USD..she retired.
Hi Ian – Ha ha… I really didn’t intend to make this article an advertisement for Feyma… but a lot of you guys did it for me! 😆 Anyway, you are right about who a real estate agent represents – the person who pays them. Feyma and I are still working out exactly how this venture will be done on the financial end… perhaps she will offer the reader here the option – you pay me and I’ll represent your interests, or if you prefer not to pay then I will take a commission from the real estate agent. Not sure yet.
Hi Dan – Yes, Feyma already does consulting, and I have told her that I consider this latest venture to be an extension of that. She really is not, in her present business, acting as a real estate agent or broker, she is only offering advice and help in making the connection to people who use her services. I totally agree with everything you say.
Thanks for your support, Dan.
Two thoughts:
1. could you write a posting about the “do’s and don’t’s” of renting/leasing based on your experience. for example, who pays for repairs and what to do if the landlord does not pay. (In one lease contract I lived under, the landlord had one week after being informed to correct the problem or if he did not, I could do it myslef and subtract whatever I paid to the lease payments.)
2. Adding to all the other adice that you have received regarding Feyma’s new business, several ideas:
a. in Canada, and I think in the US too, there is a service that for a relatively modest fee comes into the house and advises the buyer on what needs to be fixed and the cost and what is aobut to go. Feyma could arrange that here (or do it herself if she has the expertise).
b. Could act as the agent for the buyer, not only to look for properties, but also to screen out the “excuse me, that is not what I asked for” situations. Recently we went to a bank and asked if they had any foreclose rice land that they were interested in selling. Oh yes, said the manager, and took us to one residential house and lot and one tract of coconut land.
c. Feyma could also become conversant with the ins and outs of land transfer, both agricultural and residential land. sometimes the transfer process is HORRENDOUS and filled with potholes for the unwarry, e.g., taxes not paid for years and must be paid before the land transfer (who pays?), getting squatters off the land, capital gains taxes, inheritance taxes, and on and on with all the glories of land transfer in this country. Alternatively, she could line up a reasonably priced, competetant and expeditious lawyer. At the least she could construct a check list for buyers of all the steps. In this, she could vet all the documents to see if they are correct, e.g., “Genelyn Lecraw, single” instead of “Genelyn Lecraw, married”, took two and a half years and four court appearance to correct.
Hi ProfDon – The “do’s and don’t’s” thing would be a pretty complex article to write. There are just so many different things that could be included, and it would be hard not to miss some things. I will consider it and see what I can think up.
On the suggestions, I’ll pass that along to Feyma and see what she feels fits into the scope of what she wants to do.
Thanks for the suggestions.
ProfDon- whatever experience we have had before does not even come close to preparing us for buying land or houses in the Phil. lol
Usual process most places- the seller contacts an agent, signs a listing agreement, and the place is put on the market at a specific price. Here, forget signing a listing agreement- its a free for all with brokers, agents, finders, fixers and jeepney drivers all trying to make a commission by finding a buyer for the house. And as to the selling price?? forget it most of the time, coz sometimes the seller here will just plain refuse to name a price. They assume that buyers will make them offers, all of which they will automatically reject and ask much much more than that! [ doesnt apply to new houses in subdivisions] . I have contacted people 5 or 6 times before I was able to get them to committ to a price- even a ridiculous one . I have never heard of anyone getting an inspection done here, and find that many sellers have never done any maintenance at all , with the exception of ones that were required such as roof leaks. When i bought my house it had 143 burned out light bulbs !!
If you a foreigner who has not had basic training in hard core negotiating/arm wrestling forget trying to do a deal on your own. The sellers generally [ maybe always?] ask outrageous prices, which they do NOT for one moment expect to get, and are not offended when you counter at a similaryly outrageously low price. And get used to the term ” rush sale”. I think its supposed to be the same as our “fire sale”, but loses effect here since just about every sale here is a rush sale ! lol The other thing that is very different here is that sellers will many times have their house for sale for several years, because they refuse to lower the price to a reasonable price. I thing the thinking is that if someone comes along who is willing to pay that price they will sell it, otherwise its not really for sale. lol
Someone said that people were expecting Feyma to work for nothing and I have reread every post and found not one mention of that. Feyma, by the mere fact that she is filipina and thus not a rich- foreigner-buyer-with-unlimited-funds can most of the time negotiate a better price than we can. And for that she definitely deserves to be paid. Of course you know that if the seller is paying her then the sales price will reflect that fact- but then that is the same everywhere you come from
I really dont see the use of Feyma doing a ” dos and donts” article. Its way too complicated. It involves variables such as culture, language,local legalities, etc etc. If you are serious about buying just hire her and use her expertise. Real estate is my business and I would feel very comfortable dealing with her . [ and I dont even know her personally]
Ian, both you and Bob have written on the order of: it’s very complicated so we would have difficulty writing about it. Why? I am asking for some basic “rules of the road.” In fact, in your posting, you have already given many.
As for your suggestion that instead of asking for a “do’s and don’ts”, better to hire Feyma, great, as long as she is ok with traveling 400 km and advising in an area in which she has no geographical or personal knowledge. If I lived in Davao, I’d do it in a heartbeat. But most of us do not live in Davao.
p.s., if I buy a house, I’ll remember to check lightbulbs first. and by the way, that must be some house to require so many lightbulbs.
Hi. I am moving to Surigao del Norte around November, 2010. I have a girlfriend who does not want to move to the USA, so I am going to move there. We have known each other over a year now.
My question is: How dangerous is Mindanao? I read about the NPA attacking the home of some mayor candidate there in SDN with about 50 armed soldiers in May of this year. Also, in Pampanga, where my gf is presently living with her sister, a guy killed several foreigners because he apparently wanted to prove that he could be a good NPA.
Sounds riskly moving there, especially if things start to really heat up against the American presence.
Just wondering what your thoughts on all of this is and what your own experience with any violence there. After I move to SDN, then I am flying my gf and her sis back to SDN. We will live there in SDN where she has family.
Thanks!
Hi Dan – My thoughts about the safety of living or traveling in Mindanao can be found here.
I have lived in Mindanao for more than a decade, and I’ve been to some dangerous parts of Mindanao too. Never had a problem. I do not consider Surigao to be dangerous at all.
Good luck with the move.
The guy killing foreigners was just basic robbery. He was a computer repairman and that is how he gained entry into their houses.
Hi Bob,
Good article. I know I have asked the question before on another article and the answer was very sufficient. Thinking about land value and building in the Philippines as a foreigner may seem less expensive in comparison of their own countries. Maybe that is the reason why people keep asking the question. But like myself some people may not have all the facts about buying property and building in the Philippines.
I can live in any style home but can others. So your point about foreign tastes in homes and the possiblity to sell that home are valid points. Before when I looked at Pilipino homes I thought “how plain and drab” but realizing later that all a person needs is four walls and a few rooms in the middle and a roof. All of the conveniences we have here in the US in a home would be nice in the Philippines but to sell it would be a different story.
I really appreciate your honesty and open answer of your reasons for renting versus buying. Your non-confrontational and reserved attitude is very nice to see. I appreciate your patience with questions that people have about life in the Philippines and not becoming irritated buy such questions. Thank you Bob.
Thanks, Darin. You know… I’ve written many times about renting vs. buying, but the subject still comes up. Once an article is in the archives, a lot of people can’t find it or don’t even look, so I’ll probably end up writing about this in the future.
My thing is, if a person wants to buy, no problem. That is their choice. It’s also my choice to rent, which some people don’t seem to understand.
I appreciate your comment, Darin. Thanks!
Hi Greg – Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I don’t agree 100%, but I agree with many of your thoughts.
I am not sure why my selection of contributors here is suspect. I have offered dozens of others the opportunity to contribute here, but they declined. Most said they were too busy, some said that don’t consider themselves good writers, etc. What is suspect about it? Just curious.
Hi Bob, and all!
My chime is that all people’s conditions are different.
I offer a couple thoughts not explored.
1. My, and many Expat wives and families come from very disgusting histories. For example, my wifes family were always squatters, awaiting the next knock/ahyoo on the door, to further disrespect and squash humanity at its basic level. Owning a home for my family was the single greatest gift I could supply. The fear of displacement is/was no longer an issue. Imagine the relief! How huge is the emotional comfort knowing that every improvement was for you, rather than an ‘owner’. This cannot be understated in such a caste and cruel system.
2. Ownership is solidity. At the end of the day, most of our/Expat wives will outlive us. In my mind the economic advantages of renting are at best suspect, and only serve to perpetuate the perception that Expats also rent their bedmates, and surely they all harbour this sentiment in their bones. I believe that if you marry, then you are obliged to provide, as a man. Renting is often a cowards approach based on purely financial conditions that may, or may not be accurate. In this article, Mr. Martin fortifies his position of favoring renting by citing his experiences of witnessing many Expat properties either remaining unsold or transferred at substantially reduced prices. I ask, in the last 3-4 years, how is Davao any different than the rest of the world? Being a gent who has a substantiated record of real estate success, I offer that Mr. Martin’s presentation of real estate investment is not above challenge.
3. I believe that if a man takes a wife, (and all the responsibilities in tow), that he and his new family are obligated to contribute to the civic betterment of his clime. Ownership/Citizenship demonstrates that you desire to assimilate, contribute and participate. You commit to participate in your community by investing in same via ownership. A serial renter simply does not engender legitimacy to same because he has not ‘ put his money where his mouth is’.
The ensconced residents recognize this fact, and respects the opinions of same accordingly.
Mr. Bob Martin is a very impressive gent, as evidenced by his efforts sourced from Davao City to provide information and services about this country and his clime. He has enumerated his reasonings for why he chooses to rent vs settle in the clime from which he derives income. He has stated that he has invested in his region by owning land. I respect his reasonings and agknowledge that he and his family has resided in Davao for many years.
If the discussion is a debate upon ownership versus renting, I always propose that emotional considerations are on par with financial conditions, given the general economic disparity of west v. Philippines. Both choices have merit. I would offer that a Filipina who chooses to marry a westerner, does so under much greater stress than a western gal. The fact that her (usual) economic condition is part of the decision making process should only inspire a western gent to be more respectful /understanding than less is obviously prophetic. Mr. Martin inspires many Expats with his travels and apparant understanding of the Philippine condition, though I found no treatment of the emotional condition in his thoughts on the subject. His was a basic economic/financial expose, where I would offer a much more heartfelt treatment of the subject. For me, I was fortunate to meet , be in love with, and marry a mature gal, with which we were able to form a unified strategy to deal with extended family. She is 10 years my junior, and with little ‘booksmarts’, yet she is as wise as any person I have ever known. I am lucky and also a bit wise. I did not marry a child.
For the rest of her life, and generations beyond, not a single night will be spent wondering when the ‘knock on the door will come that tells them to relocate’. I submit that this singular fact trumps all the economic/financial ‘spin’ offered in Mr. Martin’s article celebrating renting over purchase-that is if you are financially capable, and man enough to step up when you said, ‘I do’.
I greatly admire Mr. Martin. His selection of contributors is sometimes suspect, but he owns the press, and his track record of persistence and success is inspirational. The fact that he has the guts to take his lardass to trouble spots in this country makes the world a safer place-if I have to explain this I’d be wasting my breath. He is a pioneer, a mountain man in the USA west, and one who will be sought after for advisement for many years. He is a Nobel guy, yet most don’t recognize his impact.
Thats how I roll!!
Thank you,
Greg May
Butuan City
HI Boss – You are right, you gotta do your homework. The example you point out of pollution and such is something that really makes me want to keep renting. My situation with the previous neighbors is another one.
Hi John – You are so correct. The cost of construction has really skyrocketed here, especially if you want to do something “western style”. Not only is it expensive to do western style… but that often makes it more difficult to sell as well!
Hi Dan – I agree with you… either buying or renting can be right, it’s an individual choice for each person to make. You are right, a lot of Americans who used to say that real estate only goes up in price have woken up in the last couple of years.
Hi Bob,
First off, I am not a native english speaker, so I hope my grammatical mistakes and such won’t be much of a problem for the readers 🙂 Anyways, I have just read your article, and I find out that renting is more suitable in my current situation. I have been in Manila for about 2 years now, and even though there were times when I considered buying a condo, I just decided to wait and get to know the country, the law and people more, so I can have a better judgement at the end.
Your article and the replies to your post just made me wonder one thing though: What do you guys think about the rent-to-buy option that they offer in Manila and probably in every other major city? I am not a an investor by no means, and I don’t know much about the country, but I know that foreigners are allowed to buy condos, and it occurs to me that a condo should be fairly easy to sell or rent, compared to a western-standard house in the province. It would make me feel that I am investing, rather than giving the money away. I understand that it would tie you up to a certain place and therefore limiting your choices to move to another place, but people around me say that I can easily sell the condo after paying it for a year or two, if I ever decide to go rent a house in someplace else.
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts in here. Almost every reply made me learn more about how things work in the Philippines. So, needless to say, your thoughts regarding my question would be much appreciated.
I agree with pretty much everything you said Bob. Since I have been there to Davao now 2 times in the past 4 months. You are right about the price of the homes and “IF” it will go up in price. People that have never been to the Philippines think its just like the US and that a house is a investment for the future. N0 its not, its a place that you can call home and just retire and enjoy life. You are doing the right thing. Hope to meet you when I am back in a few months. keep in touch.
I don’t get it why people would equate your intelligence to being stupid simply because you choose not to own a house. I mean, c’mon! It’s a matter of choice. And it’s your choice not to be tangled by all the hassles of being a homeowner – and there’s nothing wrong with that. You also made a lot of great points in your article, Bob. Mostly I agree with, but you have to remember that The Philippines is a very small country and the population is not getting any smaller anytime soon. That means, you’re going to have to face the traffic, loud noise and shitty neighbors eventually, no matter where you are in the country.
Bob
Based on the simple math alone I agree with you on this one.
I cant imagine being stuck with nasty neighbors and having to take a beating on trying to sell the house just to move away from them I probably would let my temper get the best of me and end up being thrown out of the country.
I wouldn’t feel the need to explain anything to anyone as far as to you decision.
Stupid hmmm, your living relatively debt free, doing what you want, not doing the typical rat race in your own version of margaritaville. Stupid is not a word that comes to my mind.
Thanks for the follow up Darin. I have probably heard some of the same things that your father used to tell you about opinions! 😉
Here in the US I rent so I have no problem with renting either. We would like to buy but that time is not yet. Being married to a Filipina has opened my eyes a lot more about what type of home we should buy and keeping a simple eye. Seeing where her family lives and how simple they live as well but still have time to do everything they want and travel around as often as they do has helped me out alot.
As my father has told me on many an occasion everyone has an opinion. He said some other things about opinions but this is a family site and I don’t want to be put on moderation.
The more I read your articles and how you speak the more I see the Philippines coming out in you. I guess the same goes for people who come to live here in the US the longer they are here the more they act like Americans. 🙂
Greg May…..may be Tom from the squatters article. What’s with that “lardass” comment? A joke, maybe, but very crude and smells like bitterness. The whole comment reeks of narcissism. I wouldn’t pay attention to his opinion on your contributors, Bob, your contributors are great, I enjoy reading all their articles on this site.
Hi Bob – I was hoping to get a general perspective on the issue from other readers and their thoughts about the subject. I trust you don’t mind me asking the question.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Sir Bob, if people can’t find or don’t want to search the archives for similar articles maybe you can list the similar archived articles in the right hand column?
Bob
The answer is whats best for you. Nothing more. Financial experts say buying a house isn’t always the best thing to do. Have a wonderful day Bob and always do whats best for your family.
Bob;
“Frankly, given these kind of numbers, it makes no sense to buy.” Could have be stated clearer, by saying “Frankly, given these kind of numbers, it makes no sense (For Me) to buy.”
The fact of the matter is I still agree with your logic about renting, in “your case”. My case is: I built my house eleven years ago using cash from my Merchant Marine salary. As I knew that one day I’d be on a pension, and might not be able to afford high rent in the future, and be forced to have to move to a cheaper location. You are still earning and process the potential to earn more.
There are two sides to every coin and either side can come up heads. Both of us are right, under our own circumstances. BTW; no flames or personal attacks were used to state my point of view (lol)
Thanks, Randy. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Thank you Kevin, glad you enjoyed it.
Hi Bob – I agree but they were build by developers not indiviuals as in my case so the costs are higher doing it that way. Anyway I built in 2005 costs have risen since then.
Regards.
Jim.
No problem, Jim… I was just pointing out that one thing and the other are not mutually exclusive. Choosing not to buy does not mean that one cannot afford to buy.
Hi imagine – I wish I could just put wheels (or a sail) on the place and do that! BTW, where are you nowadays?
Hi Bob- Thats a UK saying when you present your argument for your actions nothing more lol.
As I said each to our own and I’m glad we did what we did when we did, as we can now enjoy our life without too many financial worries considering the turbulent financial times we live in.
Kind regards.
Jim.
“Why choose to rent in the Philippines” is a very good article which help me to consider rent or buy a house in philippines. thanks a lot.
No Problem, Jim. I am glad that you don’t have any financial worries… I don’t have any either, and it makes for a happy life!
Imagine
There you go. I like that.
Hi Jack – Good luck, I hope that it all works out for you and your wife! Happiness in life is the number 1 consideration!
Hi Jack – Thank god I’m not the only one who thinks the way I do, its not always about money.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Bob,
Well stated. In any investment, beside rate of return, risk and liquidity are factors.
Buying desirable land, and using quality materials to build a house the size you need is going to cost PhP 10 million. To realize any kind of decent return on your investment when the kids are gone, you’d have to sell it for at least PhP14 million. The fact is, the pool of available buyers willing and able at the time is going to be very small. And most of them, would rather build the dream home of their dreams, not your design.
And at that future date, without strict zoning laws and enforcement, it could very well be that your once desirable location isn’t so desirable anymore. Building today, to suit your temporary needs, could be the very thing to prevent you from building your true dream home if you’re unable to sell it.
And I know this doesn’t apply to you and Feyma, (or me, if you’re reading this,Yam, honey) but we all know of men married to Pinays who’ve sunk their life’s savings into real estate who suddenly find themselves dumped from the relationship in a country which forbids non Philippines citizens from owning land. That adds to the risk part of the equation.
There are so many splendid investment opportunities in the Philippines, that for me, building a home is like buying a luxury car. It satisfies an itch but I won’t depend on it as an investment. Either build a home you don’t plan on selling, or build one you can easily sell.
Hi Rex – Generally, rent to own plans generally are not much in favor of the buyer. However, I am not really familiar with what is being offered by these condos, so it may or may not be a good deal. I’d study it carefully, though. You are right, foreigners can purchase condos, but only up to a maximum of 40% of the condos in the entire unit.
Good luck, I hope it works out well for you.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Dan, interesting thoughts. Personally, I think that the Philippine Government is pretty stable these days, but it’s always good to consider all of the possibilities.
Hi fred – We have a number of places in mind where we may move in the more distant future. Mostly we are thinking of somewhere in Sarangani Province. We are not really interested in Cebu or Manila (especially Manila).
Hi Anthony – I saw that commercial about a week ago… I can’t remember for sure where I saw it, but I am thinking it was on CNN, some show showed it for one reason or another. It is a good commercial, though, and it is also how I live my life. Thanks for sharing that.
Hi Paul – I guess that the good thing about having a pig or chicken farm next door is the free meat! 😆
Hi Dan – I’m glad you enjoyed the article. One thing about the Philippines – there really are not covenants and such in most places here, I guess only in the higher end gated communities.
Some thoughts:
1. Buy property ONLY if you are a citizen of that country. If you are deported, you will be forced to leave the property behind. If I were a foreigner, I would not buy property in the Philippines because the Philippine Constitution prohibits foreign ownership of real estate. As a dual citizen, I also would not buy property in some states in the US, where property taxes can be confiscatory. However, it is advantageous to own property in the US if one must travel there with some regularity for business. The US State Department will not deny a visa to anyone who owns property in the US.
2. Buy a condo ONLY if security is important. Condos are difficult to sell and expensive to maintain. And like my father used to say when he was alive, you’re buying ‘air’. But if you have a job that requires you to travel, then by all means buy a condo.
3. Renting is always the best way to go unless you have children. Land is the best ‘store of value’. The property granted by the King of Spain to my great-great-great grandfather is still feeding sixth generation descendants. Talk about investment returns!
I don’t have any regrets at all, Miss August. Wouldn’t change a thing.
Maayong Buntag Bob
Good article!
When I first started looking into moving to the RP I looked into houses for sale. I started to notice that many of these houses were on the market for years and others were drastically reducing prices in an attempt to dump there home. I did not understand why until I realized how most kano houses are priced out of the pinoy’s price rang. Then there was this article I read a while back about a kano and his pinoy wife who saved there money to build there dream home by her parents in the RP. The wife’s parents lived in a small village and the kano house ended up being the attraction of the village since the house was so much better than anyone else’s in the village. Since they lived in such a nice house everyone in the village thought they had plenty of money and they were hounded continuously for money. They finally moved out of the village and rented a small house in a city unable to sell the house they had built.
Hi Bob,
Nice article. I agree wholeheartedly with you on this for the Philippines. The normal economic sense, in most western couontries, in buying property via a mortgage with a view to profiting long term is, of course, quite right. In the Philippines, however, the two things you point out reverse the concept, namely the extreme lack of certainty of being able to sell when and if you want, and the relative low rent.
Of course, there are other factors to consider for some. If you are living on a pension, for example, and may expect not ever to move again, building can be much cheaper than buying pre-built, and the prospect of not having to pay rent when you are 97 and can’t remember your own name may be quite appealing. But each has to consider their own situation.
I hope your article encourages some people to actually sit down with pencil and paper and do some calculations themselves, rather than making brash assumptions.
If I may say so, this is one of the best articles you have done on LIP to date!
Jim
Bob..Great post and all I can say it that it depends on each person or couple and the circumstances that are in their life, if buying or renting is a good thing. I think a lot here in the USA are thinking or wishing that they would have never signed on that bottom line on buying a place…So many are up side down and owe way more than it worth and many are losing their house and finding their selves in the rent position again with a bad credit rating to boot. Here in the USA a good credit rating is a god send, with out it you pay more for your car insurance..even hard to find a place to rent and etc.I think some times a lot of people do not sit down and do the math booth ways like you did…or take and look at their lives in the short term and then try to project the long term down the road and then decide what is the best way to go……as far as buying a house for a good investment..not sure I think that is such a wonderfull way to go…Your example is a lot better way to go in my mind and also for me…..
I stand corrected, I thought everyone had a little bit of “Otang” at the local sarisari.
Great article! Thabnk you for taking the time to clearly explain the pros and cons of renting. I totally agree with your reasoning. In a country where zoning is virtually nonexistent one should really think twice about investing a substantial sum of money in a home. The comparatively low rental rates are also an important factor.
Hi Paul – I agree with you fully! What I meant was that there is no compelling reason to buy, nor is there a compelling reason not to! We are both right, and we are both winners since we are both doing what is right for us! No problems from me about that!
Paul Thompson
Thats exactly what i’ll be doing when i retire there, pay cash for a house rather than rent. I will also be on a pension and may not be able to afford rent increases at least until i start receiving social security if it is still around. Also want to make sure i have enough money to keep the frig filled with cold ones hahaha. Good point for buying. It’s just whats best for you. No wrong answer.
Well you also have to look at that Bob is making a decision based upon today’s climate and not the one 10 years ago. Prices on real estate went through the roof in the last decade almost everywhere, and now have come down. Even in the US, the debate is whether it makes sense to own a house anymore. Given the very high rate of foreclosures in the US, and the huge number of people in underwater on their homes in the US, a home can no longer be viewed as an investment (I went through the real estate bust in Texas in the 80s, and my home still hasn’t recovered its value, after adjusting for inflation).
And as Bob states, if you build you high-end home along expat tastes, who is going to buy it? A $1,000 month salary puts you in the top 10% of wage earners in the Philippines — and they mostly live in Manila and Cebu, locals just can’t buy, even if they liked the home. And there is nothing to indicate that there will be a rising middle class in the Philippines any time soon. And don’t expect a huge wave of expats coming to the Philippines in the coming years — sure there will be many, but they will more be the ones living on Social Security, which won’t let you buy a $500,000 house here.
So buy if it makes you feel better to own you own home, but be very careful trying to rationalize it as an investment.
Well..Bob that is great on most places no covenants…that way you can pretty well do as you like…and hopefully they will not come up with all the zoning regulations there that they have in most places here in the USA…From what I have read I do not think most of the Fillipino people would like zoning..of course they might all ready have some of that like in Manilia and such, but do not know…
Hi Paul – I don’t consider the ROI argument to be a strawman argument. It’s a real financial measure of which choice makes the most economic sense.
I, like most, don’t have a pile of cash sitting here that I am debating over – “rent or buy”. I don’t have the P20M that it would take to build the kind of house I need today. Could I build a more modest house, maybe P7 or P8M? Yes, I could. I still don’t have the cash sitting in a pile, but I have assets that I could turn into cash if I wanted to.
Talking about your creative financing (something which you wrote about a year ago or so, as I recall)… if somebody came to me and said, “Bob, here is P10M for you to build a house, pay me back P30k each month instead of paying rent… no interest.” I probably still would not build a house today. I would love such an option for a time in the future when I am prepared to own a house, but that is not where I am in my life right now. I know that I am very likely in a temporary location right now. 6 or 7 years down the road… I’ll likely be looking at options that are much different than present themselves to me right now.
You make some good point, though, Paul, and something for people to consider when making a decision.
Hi Paul – Is that “ceative financing” or “creative accountancy”, on second thoughts I may have been reading the wrong book ha!ha!ha!
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Karl – Yeah, it’s just a personal choice, and a matter of timing for me. Right now, the time is not right. Later on the right time might come along for me to own a house here! 🙂
Randy;
As long as a person arrives here with a well thought out plan, if they rent, buy, or build, I’ll parrot your statement “No wrong answer.”
Very good article bob, You covered my thinking in this article completely.i agree with you 100% I have nothing to add….but to each their own
Bravo Bob…you missed your calling…should have been a real estate investor ! As you may recall thats what I have been doing soley for income for the last 24 years (income properties) your rational for renting v/s buying are dead on target…its all about ROI (return on investment) and from what I’ve seen renting is much much better than buying for most, Paul T. case is would be the exception (smart move Paul !). I think Thomad Gil fails to understand RP real estate values. Hope to be lookin for my own rental in Cebu this spring !
Hi Kevin – Thanks for your input! Your points are very well stated. Frankly, I could not agree more!
Ha ha… thanks Neal. Not only relatively debt free… we are completely debt free! It’s a good feeling, and one of the nicest things about living here in the Philippines.
I agree with you Bob. I have been living in Canada for almost 20 years now and I have no motivation to buy a house either. Renting is not necessarily bad even in western countries. I save more by just renting and life is simpler. I dont want my life to revolve around the house. A lot of people in western countries who own a house have to take double or triple jobs for their mortgage, property taxes, utilities, etc. I dont want that unnecessary stress. The collapse of property market in the US, almost wiped out the owner’s equity. Their losses are far more worst than people who are just renting.
Oh the ironies of life! 😀
Hi Brent – Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Yes, renting is right for me at this time. I may own a house at some later date, but right now is not the right time for me. I am fine with that!
Hey, I’d be happy to meet you when you are here, just give me a shout!
Hi Boss – Problem is, my right hand column would be 3 miles long! I could list all the articles about renting, then people would say, “can you list all the articles about speaking bisaya” next “can you list all the articles about riding jeepneys” soon, the column would be a mess! 😆
Hi Larry – You might be surprised at just how common that story is among foreigners here in the Philippines. I have seen it happen so many times that I don’t even raise an eyebrow anymore! Good comment, Larry.
Ha ha… cash only here! 😆 Sometimes my kids spend money that they don’t have at the sari-sari, though… and I have to foot the bill when the day or reckoning comes! 😯
That could be a good example of maybe where a little nipa hut would have been the best way to go and then the rest of the people in the villiage would think you was a poor Fillipina married to a down and out poor Kano man…and since they would think you was so poor and such, they not bother you so much and you could be able to take a nap in the hamock and enjoy the breeze blowing thru the coconut trees….
Hi Bill – Thanks for sharing your view.
Hi Dan – Remember, though… no covenants on you also means that there are no covenants on the neighbors either! If they decide to open up a pig farm next door to you, there is nothing you can do! 😆
Dan, May 2010 I purchased our home in Dinalupihan, Bataan. It’s 300 sq mtr floor space, 4 bedroom, 3 bath one-story home on a 900 sq mtr lot. See pics on my facebook page.
I only paid P2.6 million for it. Yes, that came to roughly $57k.
Pita is the Baragngay in Dinalupihan, where we live. Lots of vacant lots for sale in this area, P500k to P700k range for anywhere from 450 to 900 sq mtr lots.
Fortunately, my wife’s family is only 15 minutes away in Barangay Luacan. Neighbors are great here, downside is wala Internet and wala landline. Gotta stand outside to cellphone reception.
I’ve seen mansions, and I mean mansions for sale for 12-2o million peso’s here in Bataan.
I wholeheartedly agree, Bob. Even looking at the very big picture in N. America, ROI on real estate averages 7% per annum, compared to 8% for a conservative portfolio and 10% for an equity portfolio. More importantly, the cycle of real estate prices is much longer that that of the general economy, making liquidity even lower in Real Estate. Like you, I’d rather have the cash!
I have also experienced peer pressure to buy over the years, and to me it seems that the belief that Real Estate is the best investment available is like a religion to some.
In terms of the Philippines specifically, I think you make some very important points. IF one was to live exactly as the middle class Filipinos live, which is what I intend to do in the long run, then there may be some advantage in owning, but again, it is such a huge commitment in so many ways, that I, like you, would have to be certain of staying in that one place for many years before I would even consider it. Buying a house in Phils is not a step I would take lightly, even when buying a small house.
As a footnote, I believe that the cult of Real Estate as the Ultimate Investment is founded on two things; people who have been lucky enough to profit from a property price boom mostly by accident (they did not appreciate how leveraged they were, in most cases) and others who have made a successful living by careful purchases and sales of property, with only profit in mind and little consideration of other lifestyle factors.
Thanks for your candidness.
Dave
C T – If you just click on Mike’s name, it goes right to his FB page.
The prevailing idea that you never lose money in real estate is a myth. I’ve built two houses in the Philippines and lost money both times when I sold them. Now I’m renting. I did the cost the projections for the two options. Over 20 years I save $70,000 by renting at my current rate factoring regular rent increases.
Hello Grace – Well, deciding where to move is a tough one, everybody’s taste is different. I would recommend that you come visit the country, travel around a bit and use your experiences to make the final decision. I love Davao City, and also Cebu.
Hi Bob – Consider the following but before doing so please remember, I have owned my own property for almost 40 years to date. The Philippine house was the first one I ever build from scratch whilst out of the other five I owned three were bought as seen and two I chose the design. One thing we have never done is bought a house that we would have struggled to make the mortgage payments on we have always lived within our means and the price you mentioned ($476,000.00) would not be for us I’m afraid.
Also to achieve your financial calculation one would actually have to have $476,000.00 in real terms in the bank. I would imagine I maybe wrong, that not many of the readers here have that kind of money in cash.
So …..I buy a lot and build a house to our particular design and purpose within our budget.
I stay in that house for six years and the rent I would have paid to a Landlord has paid for the entire project. For every year I now live in the house I do so free of charge with the exception of general maintenance which we budget at 15,000.00 pesos per annum which also covers repainting of the property every 5 years inside and out.
Where did I go wrong? If I had put my money in a UK bank £21,000.00 at an average of 3% per annum net in 5 years compounded I would have ended up with £23,638.775 less the original £21,000.00 total made on investment £2,638.775.
If I calculate the original cost of the house in 2005 £21,000.00 (2,268,000.00 pesos) @ 108 to the £ and paid rent of say 30,000.00 pesos per month (360,000.00 annum) at an average of 80pesos to the £ it would cost me £4,500.00 per annum to rent my property. Bearing in mind I’m only getting £630.00 per annum in interest on my original investment I’m £3,870.00 down in the first year if I continue at this rate and my rent doesn’t increase meanwhile for the five year period it will cost me £22,500.00 in rent to a Landlord. In five years I am now £1,500.00 out of pocket. Each subsequent year assuming the rent only increases 10% on the total 5 year lease it will cost me a further 1,980,000 pesos or £24,750.00 in rent.
What we would have paid in rent goes a long way to making life comfortable in our
retirement bearing in mind we live on a pension. Buying a property where ever you may be is a longer term investment. You or your spouse may never benefit from the investment in cash monitory terms but your offspring might. Bearing in mind that since your offspring never paid for the property initially what they get is profit to them. Once the property is paid for it frees up the cash you would have otherwise paid in loans then that’s when you benefit, if you did not have the money initially to build or purchase the property. What is also important to me at least is my wife will have a roof of her own over her head should anything happen to me and if I had school age children it would be even more important in my opinion.
Even if one requires a house with lots of rooms one can always build a house suitable for the immediate family and in the back garden further accommodation for staff consisting of a rectangular building with individual rooms a communal kitchen and toilet with its own private access. Building a smaller house with external additional accommodation is much more feasible than building a huge house with limited future selling potential and high maintenance costs.
Of course one could on the other hand build a mansion if one had the means which meets the current requirements of ones present family, and as time passes and the family dwindles one is left with something that is difficult to manage as one becomes older and less able. The moral of the story is to build with not only the present in mind but also the future that way you are more likely to maximise your initial investment. In order to do anything in life you require two things the will and the means and one unfortunately without the other is of no good. Since this subject has arisen, I wonder how many Filipino families pay 40,000.00 pesos per month to rent a property. Either way one needs a roof over ones head one way or another. For me I prefer to have my own property and land than give my money for someone else to benefit. I would like to finally add that land is the most valuable commodity in the Philippines and if some one likes the house that stands on it, then that’s a bonus. All houses and lots where ever they maybe on the planet are only worth what someone is prepared to pay for them despite what the realtor or the market analysts might say.
Everyone’s circumstances are different and the above example suited ours.
I rest my case M’ Lord and may time be the judge.
Good points all.
My thought before moving here was to build a home of my own, but after sitting back and looking at all the negatives I came to the quick conclusion that doing so was not right for me. If I was in Paul’s situation I would have done the same thing. Paul didn’t do it as an investment, and I think that is where some go wrong here.
My rent…. elect,,,water,,,,internet,,,,,cable…..runs under 20,000p a month, which leaves money to be left alone to earn interest far more than any real estate would earn.
The rent here is so cheap it just doesn’t make sense to me to buy at my OLD age.
Too each his own I always say, but in my situation I am in total agreement with Bob and a few others .
Hi Tom – Thanks for your input. I don’t think you can really go wrong by renting. For me, the time may come when I decide to own my home, but for now, renting is the right thing in my book.
Jim 97?
I’ll see you there, neither of us will remember why we’re there, but as we drool into our cold beers we’ll raise a bottle, and I hope to remember to drink it.
Bob: Reading this, I can’t help but think back to the times when I was living in the States that I was called an idiot fot not buying. Over the last 20 years, I nearly jumped in several times and bought. I have not regretted the decisions not to buy once. It is interesting how nearly all that criticized me ended up taking a bath when property collapsed.
You mentioned in the comments about building a house and the costs associated with building. Rebecca was an OFW when we met. In Western terms, building a house may have been “cheap” at one time. That is no longer the case. The costs of materials have soared in recent years. To illustrate, last year we finished an addition to the house in Abulug (We added a room to the 2nd floor, tiled a portion of the kitchen, and made a covered granary in the “basement”). The costs to do this were guessed by Becky’s brother to be around 70,000. We ended up paying nearly 200,000. In just two years the costs of materials nearly doubled, and with the expenses related to permits and running behind…
Note, this was not a case of “Kano” pricing. I was 100% not involved. In many cases, people get this “cheap” idea in their heads, comparing construction costs to the States. This isn’t the States, and building to standards comparable to the States can be just as expensive, or even more expensive, when attempted here. Several months ago you mentioned just such a case of an American, I think, in Cebu who documented his trials on the net. If I remember correctly, he ended up with his “US style” house, but it was something like 4X the cost and time to get it done.
Bob as you stated there is no right or wrong on this topic. Interestingly home ownership in the U.S has not been a good thing over the past few years. I should state not a good thing if you needed to move or had a financial set back. There have been a lot of articles and debate about buying vs renting. I rent right now and my reasons are basically your reasons. Where I am is not where I am going to stay and I would rather be flexible in that decision. To each his own or to each his rent. Enjoy your new house. Marlou will be there in Feb. I was coming but too expensive for three of us. She will come with Izzy and her sister. Keep it up. Ron
That’s simply a no-brainer to me. I’ve moved around a lot the past years (5 cities/3 countries in 7 years) and have even purchased property along the way (a 3 BR house & a 1.5 BR condo) and I’ve come to the conclusion that renting is the way to go.
Of course, this idea doesn’t apply to everyone since we all have unique situations, but with the preferences you’ve mentioned, you buying a property will just get you stuck.
For me, I’m sticking to renting now and in the foreseeable future. I like to keep my options open and save a ton of money while at it.
*Oops, I meant 4 BR house (not 3 BR). Hate to shortchange myself considering the grief (and bad back from landscaping) that I put into that house :p
That was a very thoughtful article, Bob. I’m really glad you wrote it.
Thanks franklin! It’s always good to know when you are making sense! 😆
here is our home 45 mins south of manila via south luzon expressway to laguna
the design is based on our southern california lifestyle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zJW6Wg23X4
it is in 8 different parts
so if you want to see more click on the more videos section
everyone has different backgrounds, present, and future needs
the moral of the story wether to rent or own is up to the individual’s wants and needs with no right or wrong answer since it is them that have to live with the decision
you may recognize the home when it was used for a local teleserya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5x-OHcuPN8
buying, building, and living in the philippines is like a roller coaster
it is a wonderful thrill ride but not for those with weak constitutions
Hi brian – actually, when I wrote the article, I was thinking of you and what you would say about it. With you making your living through real estate investment… well… your opinion is meaningful! Thanks for backing me up.
Thanks, Jason. I’m glad you found my article useful.
Hi Eric – Without a doubt, wherever you may find yourself, there is nothing wrong with renting provided you get the right deal!
Facebook page? I searched, there was no return for, “pita mike”. It would help if you gave an URL.
Thanks,
CT Dunn
Lubbock, TX, USA
Hi Eric,
I think you are right in saying that renting can be a sensible option in Western countries too; in Germany, for example, home ownership used to be relatively low, and they had excellent mobility of labour because people were not tied to their homes.
As far as property values are concerned, most of our current woes are due to foolish people being lured into property ownership in the hope of short term gains, and consequently causing massive (false) increases in valuation via supply and demand. (Pretty much the same as the guy who can’t keep out of the gambling shop, when you think about it)! If people would calm down and listen to Grandpa, he’ll tell you that property is a long term investment. They always have gone up historically, but you have to look at a 25 year cycle, not 25 months that the greedy and unwise have been doing in recent years.
Hi David – Thanks for your input. Yes, rental rates here are very low, and must be factored into a decision if the choice is to be made based on monetary reasons. There are other factors, and comfort and peace of mind are very important. For me, the monetary side, and the peace of mind both led me in the same direction!
When I rented my first place years ago my Dad gave me a very simple lesson. He asked me how much I was paying then had me hand over the monthly $225. Taking the money from me he let it fall to the floor and said “this is owning”. He then picked up the same money and dropping it out the window he said “renting”. Thank goodness we were on the ground floor and it wasn’t a windy day!
Hi Jim H – How true a saying, well said.
Regards.
Jim.
Living like a snail has it’s benefits. I take my home with me most places. If I don’t like the neighborhood I just move it……lololol…..i2f
Sound advice as always from the voice of experience…
My true story: I own a home in the U.S. that I could not sell for what I owe. My wife and I would like to sell it in 5-6 years after our youngest graduates high school. If we are exceedingly lucky, we might be able to get what we owe, but are certainly not going to make any money on it. And, no, we did not buy at the top of the market. We paid a very reasonable, at the time, amount.
This is a reality in a number of places now in the U.S.
Hi Kevin – I think that (in my opinion) only one thing Jim said was not really correct. He did talk about paying 30k rent and such… but the house that he built for P2.5M or so, especially in the location where it is would not demand that kind of money, so that throws the argument off a bit, IMHO of course.
Hi Kevin – When I mentioned building a quarters in the back garden I meant just that, so those living there have their own privacy as does the family in the main house.
I took that idea from my experiance in Nigeria when we had lots of staff living on our compound.
With our present back garden I could easily build external accommodation as we have the space to do so.
regards.
Jim.
I m going to live in philippines for the warm weather. At first , I plan to buy a house , but now I think that I should reconsider the plan after I read the article. rent may be a better way for live in philippines freely.
Hi Bob – Since there are no houses of my type for rent in my town I had to use an example but just down the road from us 20mins houses are renting for 40K per month near the airport outside of CdeO.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Bob
First post to your site , although i have been reading the comments for some time. My wife and i own a house in Davao, at the time of purchase i wasn’t bothered either way if i owned or rented , as u say each to their own. What swung it for me to buy is when my wife and i inspected our current place and to see her eyes light up on inspection and say to me “oh hubby its what i have always dreamed of”….so i said i guess we buy then, lol(might i add its only mid range price range )….I dont mean to be disrespectful in any way as i have read all the posts so far but im just wondering if any of you guys that are renting have considered what your wife would like .
Hi Jim – I understand. But, the thing is… those houses in Xavier cost a lot more than 2.5 or 3 million pesos. So, the rental price would be much higher too.
Hi Macky – for me, and it seems for you, in our life situations at the moment, it is simply a no-brainer. I was kind of shocked the other day when I posted that we had found a suitable place to move to and several people were kind of hounding me that I had done the wrong thing…. well, for me I did the right thing! 😆
Thanks Dave. One thing you said that is very important is when you said that you would want to live somewhere long enough to be sure that it is the place you want to stay. That is important to me as well, and I have been in Davao long enough to know that it probably is not permanent for me. So, renting makes a lot of sense for now.
Dear Sir,
Having read your article about renting vs buying was very interesting, thank you.
As you mentioned there is no right answer here, only what suits one self at that time or future.
I have moved quite a few times, having rented and bought housing was what was suitable at that time when and where we lived. I rented in Rhodesia, rented and then bought a house in South Africa, now living in the Netherlands and I am renting.
As you mentioned in your article you may not want to live in Davao in the future due to all your reasons you mentioned and I can understand you view point on all you mentioned.
We could have bought our house that we are renting, but when we looked into it the pro and cons and with the so called economic situation as they call it, We decided not to, and I am glad as I am not sure if we will end up on staying here.
Our family have all grown up, and where ever they may go in the future is also a deciding factor as to see if we stay.
We have also thought about moving to the Philippines and your article has given me much to think about.
One question though, which areas do you consider good in the Philipines?
Thanks for the article, I wish you and your family the very best.
Kind Regards,
Mrs G. Lee.
Hi Macky – Of course its a no brainer for you living like a Gypsie, you’d be better with a Motorhome.
Regards.
Jim.
That’s what I like, Phil! You are always thinking! The grandkids might put off plans, I guess! 😆
Good thought, dans.
Thanks, Dave.
Certainly pays to do your homework when you come to the Philippines. Every one has unique circumstances and without a doubt I feel it is crucial if not mandatory that you rent for a couple of years before making any decision to buy or build a home in any location. The quality of your neighbours can make or break your life here, as I discovered three times. Luckily I have no problem with neighbours now but the pollution levels visual, air and land may force me to look elsewhere to live. If I was locked into a house that freedom of choice would now not be possible.
Also a very important point, have a plan B for your own security. Before I left the Philippines a couple of weeks ago, two foreigner mates of mine are now separating after long term marriages, the houses they have built are virtually unsaleable ( to the relief of the separating foreigners ). As both men are in their 60’s they found out there are no rules in love and war, the women want the lot. So keep some funds in reserve for yourself, that would be a wise investment for the next relationship.
If you have partnered a young pinay and you decide to buy a house, mortgage the land to your wife, take out a rock solid 25 year lease out on the house with a 25 year option and that will give you some security if you get turfed out of your relationship.
Spot on, Paul!
Yes Mate…I only said that as its my opinion that owning a house is more importent to a woman then a bloke(generally speaking)…Ihave noticed with my wife how much more house proud she is now she has her own home, compared to when we were renting places. She loves her home(more then me i think)haha…but im happy if she is happy. Being an aussie i couldn’t care less so long as the fridge can hold a few tinnies and the tv works then any house would be ok with me….but for my wife the kitchen is the key.
Hi BOb!how are you?your publishing articles live in the Philippines !!!I fined very interesting!its make me awake the situation there in Philippines are not very easy or simple!I fell like I read the NEWS about PHIlippines what is the real life there!!thanks BOB!!
Thank you Baya. I am happy that you have enjoyed my site!
Hi Ron – I’m sorry to hear that I’ll be missing you in Feb! Hope to catch you next time, though!
Good analysis Bob.
Even if the numbers were in favor of buying, you have plenty of other hard to quantify reasons for renting.
What I’m curious about is what is different about housing economics there vs the US that results in this sort of upside down situation. As you know, in the US, the rental value of a property tends to drive the selling price to a large degree. So, why are people there willing to pay such high multiples of the rental value when they buy? I suspect it has something to do with interest rates and what investors can expect from alternatives to owning rental property, but I’m surprised the differences with the US are SO different.
I like what I’ve seen and heard so far of your new home, and I hope all goes well there for you.
–James
Bob – For goodness sake thats a joke.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Bob,
This is my first time to leave a comment. I like your articles, you give good information and very honest opinion. I agree with you about renting. Next year, my husband and I will be renting a 4 bedroom house in Tagaytay city for 2 months.It’s fully furnished 2 storey with a million dollar view of Taal volcano the rent is 30,ooo Pesos a month. I finally convinced him to spend some time in the Philippines and get to know my birthplace. I met him here in Australia and we’ve been married for 16 years, and I have been living here for almost 3 decades. He used to say, he doesn’t like the Philippines ( I laughed at his opinion and said, ” how can you not like the Philippines you haven’t seen much of the country and experience to spend time there?” and it shuts him up with my answer.
This last winter, He really felt the harsh Victorian country winter (we live just below the ski field ) he is 69 years old with health problems , he finally agreed to stay in the Philippines and get away from the winter season. At this point in time, it is a good idea for us to rent because he doesn’t want to live full time in the Philippines. Also I want him to get used to the idea, that the day will come that I will need help from a private nurse to look after him. After all, in 10 years time, I will be 54 and he will be 79.
I told him about your Dentist, that did a good job on your friend’s dental work, we might see you next year. It is a big step for him. Keep up the good work, best regards to you, Feyma and the kids.
without a doubt, mark… everybody gets to choose what is best for them! I hope your place works out well for you!
Hi Tom – It would be interesting for the readers to know how you lost money on your properies? Was it on the cost of the build or the cost of the land?I’m also personally interested in how you save $70,000.00 over 20 years.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Kevin – I hope you enjoy your life in the warm weather! I know that I do!
When I return, I’ll rent. I may build a small house in the mountains by my In-Laws and a small home on our ocean property but I’ll probably rent in the city until I know for sure where I want to live.
I think that’s a wise move, Craig! You can always buy or build when you are ready!
Hi Bob – I was only pointing out my side of the story as it would have been difficult for us having been married 28 years to sell up our home in the UK to come to the Philippines to retire only to rent. At my time in life I would not wish to be at the mercy of a Landlord from lease period to lease period. And worse still having to move if we failed to agree terms every time the lease expired. At my age I just want a stress free life and having our own property where we are located gives us just that. And as another reader mentioned the Asawa is happy and that means a lot to me.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi bob after reading your article i beleive that you are in the right way of thinking for this stage in your life ,as you have said before that you will no doubt move to the island when your youngest leaves school ,so why buy ? this would be a rather silly thing to do when your plans are really not as they say set in concrete and the disruption to your life frm those horrid neighbours is anpother reason why you are lucky to be renting ,i dont think that if you lived in a gated comunity as the ones springing up al over the place there there would be much chance of a metal shop or pig farm sudenly opening up but as you say in davao in the normal suburbs it could happen mywife has warned me of the all night kareoke machines where neighbours dont care if they keep you awake ,still i dont live there so i am only going on her word ,when i stayed in lanang it was very peacefull until we got in the taxi and thenm the adrenalin rush was on until we got to where we were going as the traffic was bad when i was there if it is worse now 3 years later then it must be cronic i see that a new development is opening on the islandup from babak to the north looks very nice but will be very expensive private beach all the facilities yarda yarda yarda i might just build a huge nippa hut on our bock and saystuff the rest of the world and wear shorts and thongs all day and drink lots of beer and then i woke up hahahaha anyway weather you rent or buy it is up to your own circumstances each has its merits
chris
Thank you Bob, Looking forward to see you and Feyma. Got to try that Durian you love so much. Believe it or not I never had it.
Off topic here, I need to know how to put my photo, excuse my ignorance I’m not a computer literate. Thanks mate…..
Bob, good article – food for thought. We have built for our own reasons but beside the pros and cons for both, I have had 20 years traveling and it’s nice to have a home,even if I still work away from home. I’m not sure with the exchange rate, poor US economy that any choice we make can be the right one, in the long run. If you can get good interest rates maybe you’re choice is the best.Where do you think you will finally settle ? Have you an idea why If houses are not selling in Davao the cost seem so high?
Hi Tom – I wish you the best on getting your money back out of the house! Hopefully the US economy will turn around and you will be sitting a little better when you are ready to sell.
Yea, I feel the same, Craig. When you move to a new country it takes time to get to know your way around and it’s always good to have family nearby to help. But most important of all is being sure of the location you will be happy in for the long term.
It’s not something that I worry about on a day-to-day basis because I do not plan to move now, so I keep making my mortgage payment.
The argument that you should always buy a house depends on so many, many factors and some of those factors are less true than they once were. At least in my part of the world.
Hi Bob! read your article..I may too agree about your thoughts and choice. Its not really a matter of choice but its a matter of timing and reality at the present. Great article!!!
Hi bob,
Rent vs buying? – it all depends on one’s financial matter, for those who will retire and will heavily depend on their pension as their only source of income, buying a house is more viable for them than renting, for those who have a continuous income flow just like you, renting is more appropriate as it gives you flexibility to move around whenever you want.
Hi D.L.Smith! Welcome aboard, happy to have you on board as a commenter! Of course, what the wife wants is important! Both she and I agree that right now, we need to rent. In 6 or 7 years when we are ready to settle down in a permanent location, buying will be a priority for us! For me, Feyma is as much a part of the decision as I am!
Hi Greg – You are so right… we each have to do what is right for us. I’m glad you found a plan that works for you!
BTW: I did forget to add that my above comment was posted in jest, somewhat. (lol)
Hi Paul – I had to laugh at you comment just think if I manage to reach the ripe old age of 97 how many cold SM’s I will be able to drink with the rent money I have saved in that time period.
Regards.
Jim.
Paul Thompson
Well said brother, Well said.
Greg;
Two years ago my brother from Boston asked me how much value my house had lost, compared to him during the downturn? You hit square on my point that I made to him, my house was built to live in, never as an investment, so I lost nothing in value as it will never be on the market, as long as I can hold a cold beer in my hand.
Bob and others have found the way that suits their life to a tee, and that makes them right in their decision, Which ever way a person decides, it’s the correct way for them, and no one could possibly be wrong. It all boils down to, my dad could beat up his dad, if we weren’t brothers. It’s a moot point!
Hi James – Thanks! I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. To be honest, I really can’t figure out why people would buy here, given that rents are so cheap. I guess the other thing I can’t figure out is why people would rent out their houses at such bargain basement prices. I suppose one thing that I think about it, although this is pure speculation, is that purchase prices are blown way out of proportion here compared to what I think they should be. But, like I say, I don’t have any way of proving that it is only me thinking out loud.
From a purely economic standpoint, I think that renting is the way to go here. But, there are lots of non-financial reasons that creep in too.
Excellent article Bob – shows what is best in Europe or USA is not always the best in the Philippines.We own a house in Las Pinas but this is a convenience as we do not spend as much time in the Philippines as before and renting long distance is not a good idea -we need a place available at any time and we also have a young child -kind of adopted – his father gave him to us 8 years ago. We have no paperwork for him so cannot bring him to Scotland.
The gentleman who referred to you as stupid seems to be prone to insulting people who do not fit in with his ideas – in at least one other thread he did much the same thing to a ladies husband. It would be better if he spent a little time considering other peoples points of view before making insulting statements.
Hi DL and Bob,
Owning a home is something that my asawa and I have discussed. I value her input on the subject. She has a dream about a simple and eloquent home. I hope that we can make it come true someday. I also agree with Paul T with his legacy statement and knowing that my wife would have a home if something happen to me.
That’s true, Boss. Philippine law does not recognize a lease between a husband and wife.
Hi Susan – No problem! We’ll look forward to a durian feast!
To get your pictures on with your post, you need to go to Gravatar and sign up there. Once you do that, your picture will show up here and on many other websites too where you comment.
Jim….
I wouldn’t say it was a North American trait….Before moving here I was a home owner all my adult life….I truly think buying here is a totally different animal all together than the states. Perhaps later I will decide to buy or build, but right now the time doesn’t seem right to make that decision.
Bob – I was refering to the legacy statement Jack refered to vis a viz Paul T.
Regards.
Jim.
Whatever you end up choosing, Jimmy… good luck to you, and I hope that your life in the Philippines turns out as good as what you are hoping for!
Hi Jocelyn – Thanks for your comment… I appreciate it!
The average Australian cannot afford to buy a house anymore so they choose to rent first and save some money and put the saving on term deposit and earn from it for the future to buy a house. On Tuesday interest rate has gone up by.45% we are not happy about it and rest of Australia who has a mortgage to pay.
My husband and I have a rental property in Melbourne. I suggested, we should use the equity from the rental property to borrow and buy another property we can rent out so we have another income when it’s time for us to live in the Philippines and take care our expenses. His answer was, you should do it when I’m gone. My answer: darling, I am talking about now whilst you are still around and enjoy the good life, because you won’t be able to enjoy it when you’re dead and buried. The mind boggles…..
Hi Jim – I listed a number of reasons in my article about why I am not currently prepared to buy. Only one was about money.
Hi Rich – When we lived in the States, we also owned our home free and clear, no mortgage to hassle with! It is certainly a great feeling to be in that position. But, here in the Philippines, I do like the freedom to be able to move around as I want to, and not tied down to a property that I may not be able to sell.
Hi Susan – The old adage comes to mind. You cannot take it with you when you go so you may as well enjoy it whilst your here.
My wife reminds me of that constantly bless her.
Regards.
Jim.
Yeah, I understand what you were referring to. I was referring to what you said, and tying it in with my article.
Sounds like a reasonable idea, kevin!
The best advice I ever heard was to live in a Pension House/hotel for a month while you are deciding where to rent. Rent for at least a year before you settle on a location to either buy or build, if that is your intent.
That said, I’ve lived here/rented for 14 years. It started with the two of us, then three, then four, five, six, and now seven of us. What size house should I have bought on the way up??
Over the next several years, we will be downsizing. Seven, six, five, four, three, and finally two again. How big a house will we need on the way down???
I dont normally chime in, BUT, I agree with Bob’s assessment regarding the ration of Buying Price versus Rental. One more important point is that in the Philippines, there is no 15/20/25/30 year mortgages like the USA, which means you pay the total price.
If you have that kind of money and just even 3% interest on a CD/Time Deposit gives you $1,190 per month – already more than the rent – PLUS your principal is intact. Just from a financial point – rental makes more sense for an expat.
As a backgrounder, I am chinese born in the Philippines and living in the USA.
Hi Boss,
With respect,and it is a confusing issue,leasing off your wife is illegal.
Even if you lease off a gf,once you marry,that lease becomes void.
Foreigners have very few rights in PH,a safer bet,invest only what you can afford to walk away from.
regards,Chas.
I enjoyed reading this article and comments,Bob. It stimulates the thought process and gives the pros and cons of home ownership in the Philippines,in a non biased way.
We purchased some land or should I say I purchased some land and my wife owns it, in Bohol last year. We will have to erect some sort of structure on the land..either temporary(nipa,etc) or permanent(concrete,etc). This will have to be done so that someone lives on the land or others will use it for their own purposes.
We will be going to Bohol in December and staying for about 6 months. I hope to grow some vegetable crops during that time.
I read your articles daily and hope you and your family enjoy your new home.
Just to emphasise Bobs point – my wife and I have been looking at properties in Scotland with the intention of buying to let – In Scotland a £50000 apartment can be rented out for about £450 per month. This is a higher return on puchase price than could be expected in the Philippines where renting is certainly cheaper than buying. House prices in the UK are static – interest rates are at an all time low but mortgages are only available to those prepared to put down 25% of the purchase price which young buyers do not have.The result of this is more houses are needed for rental and rents are rising.This situation we have has not existed for many years,the housing boom ,which caused the bad debts which crippled the world financial system,is over.
Hi D.L.Smith – you always gotta keep the misses happy! That makes your own life even better!
Hi Bob,
Interesting post,like they say in racing circles “Different horses for different courses”.
It all comes down to the individual,and the way they percieve things.
As far as the PH goes,we will rent for the first few years and see where it takes us.
1st year in Davao City,then re-assess.
We have a couple of other options,so we may try living in other places for 1yr each,until we decide where to put down roots or not.
regards,Chas.
HI BOB GOOD POSTING MATE
Like u i have been renting there now for 9 or 10 years mate but this year we did buy a home about 3 hours out off manila city just right for us but we will still have to rent a home for my wifes kids too i like it as we will always have a home there every time i come home and for me that is a lot better and have to rent a new place evry time i leave australia to go to the phill but it dont matter wether u rent or buy in the end it is just u and your loved one got to live there right…………
from peter martin tassie
Hi Bob- From what I have gathered from the comments on this post so far renting as opposed to buying or building a property in the Philippines, renting is by far a North American trait. In the UK for example most middle income and higher income earners would never dream of renting a house to live in. The current UK housing situation with regards to selling is due to the banking situation as of now. Just imagine some one if they were able sell their property in the UK now to come and live in the Philippines to retire with a bank rate of 0.05%.
When you discussion arose about buying or renting as an option my wife let me into a secret one evening whilst having dinner. She informed me that had I not decided to build in 2005 she would have gone ahead and done so herself even although it was just a modest abode. Bearing in mind that she had worked all her married life before we came to live here. I’m glad I/we made the decision to build at least we have something decent to live in. I’m sure couples in our position if the husband had to ask their wives what shall we do Lang ga for the best, I can guess I know the answer.
Regards.
Jim.
I personally disagree with your dad, Tony… but I hope it has worked out well for you, and him too!
Hi Jim – I don’t feel either of us has to present any “case”. If you are happy with what you did, hey, I am very happy for you, and I have no ill will! But, I am happy with what I am doing, can’t we just agree that I can do what makes me happy?
Anyway, congrats on your house, Jim. It honestly makes me happy that you are pleased with the direction that you took. It’s not what I would do, but that’s what makes the world go around… we all get to do what pleases us, and we can all be happy in doing it.
Well, thank you Jim! I appreciate your comment. As Paul Thompson pointed out, in his case, I do think he did the right thing by building a place. In my case, I believe that renting is right for me at this time. Others may disagree and that is their prerogative to do so. But, in the end, I am happy with the direction I am going at this time. 😀
Being 97 and not remembering one’s name would be a far better for me, than being 97 and drooling on you full bank book, trying to remember what was it you were saving for?
The wife and family will have a free and clear house for the remainder of their life, it could be called a legacy, if my memory serves me correct.
Hi Jim,
I think you presented your position rather well, and I think your course of action was quite sensible. I wonder perhaps if yours and Bob’s are a bit of an apples and oranges comparison rather than apples and apples.
I think if Bob could build the house his large household with all the computers and their workers needed for less that PhP 2.5 million, in the location he desires, his decision might be different. The payback from rent savings would be much shorter. Also, when his children move on, he might be able to rent it profitably. Alternately, if he chose to sell it, the chances of doing so in a reasonable time frame is much higher.
I think the idea of inexpensive communal quarters “out back” is interesting. I’m going to mull over that. I’ve never visited Bob’s place, but I’m told his “staff” are often relatives of Feyma. For me, I’m not sure I’d be comfortable sending them out each night away from the main house.
It really comes down to the price of the investment in the end. 2.5 million to save 30,000 in monthly rent versus 10 to 20 million. That’s why it makes sense financially for each of you to do as you’ve done.
Hi Tony- Your dad and I have the same understanding and to be frank if I had not been able to afford to purchase my own house after coming back and forth to the Philippines for almost 28 years i would not have come to stay as we have done.
Regards.
Jim.
Bob:
Back to supply and demand.
My thoughts on the rent issue, at least from a Manila perspective. I think it comes down to where you want to live. Areas like Makati, Tagaytay, and the old money enclaves tend to draw more employed expats and wealthier expats. Rents in those areas can be significantly higher than in other areas, even taking into account the higher house values..
Our house in QC is in a compound with middle class Filipino residents. One other expat, a sea captain who is never around. Rents in this compound range from 8,000 – 25,000 per month, with house values from 2 million to 10 million. There are two houses for sale here, both on the market for over three years. There are two bank foreclosures here, too, which have been in the courts for over five years each. Of the remaining 25 or so houses, about half are rented and the rest are owner occupied.
My point is that in areas with business execs, more “western” design, the proportion of rent to value is much higher. Relatively few Filipinos can afford those rents, and in those areas I’ve seen similar houses to ours renting for 4-5 times as much. I vividly recall a debate in a LinkedIn group after a comment made by a European complaining that his housing stipend of 3,000 Euro per month was inadequate for Greenhills. Yes, many houses there are “expensive”, but very few exceed that 20 million threshold there (Some do…Though I think he was more enamored with his own worth, myself). Similar, when we moved here, I found a house in Alabang, sale for 18 million, rent at 90,000…
Just want to be clear… hope you don’t mind Jim. I am honestly not criticizing you, just pointing something out.
Just because a person chooses to rent his home, it does not mean that “he cannot afford to purchase”. Those two things really are not related at all.
My goodness… no reason to be nasty about it!
I agree with you 100% Bob. Perhaps you should have just turned the sentence around and told Mr. Gil that he was “Stupid” for suggesting you buy a house! Clearly he had not done the math and researched the issues.
In his defense, in most parts of the world, America being a prime example, home ownership is so overrated, so ingrained in everyone’s psychic, to admit that as an adult you are still “renting” automatically implies that you are less than whole, you are a failure because you can’t “afford” to own your own home. I was probably guilty of that line of thought years ago.
Unfortunately, millions of Americans who have gone through foreclosure or are now facing foreclosure, are probably reevaluating that home ownership myth.
I own my own home, free and clear, and as soon as the economy recovers a little more here in Florida, I expect to unload it before everything is lost in a fire, a tornado, a hurricane, a pig farm next door — well, maybe not a pig farm, zoning laws take care of that over here, but you see what I mean. Sure, the home is insured, but go and ask some of those families who were wiped out in Hurricane Katrina a few years back if they recovered fully and the answer will be a resounding “NO”.
If for no other reason, I would see home ownership as an unnecessary “anchor” around my neck if I were already living in the Philippines. Having said that, I can think of a few examples where you might want to own a home. A good example would be if you need to take care of an extended family and want to make sure that when you are planted in the ground, the loved ones left behind have an easier chance of surviving. If your wife or her family had the home in her name, that goal would be easier to accomplish.
Wow Bob I had a hard time finding the bottom of this page so i could give you my 2 cents worth of thought … Who cares what other people think ,It’s a good Idea you have Bob , rent first then buy when you decide to settle down ..Kids all grown up and gone ( WELL MAYBE NOT ) .. then you can find a nice retirement place to live out your life in peace Ohh maybe not ,when you have grandkids they will make your life more interesting too but not too peaceful but it will be enjoyable .. 🙂 Phil
Hey Bob,
Good article… makes one consider or revisit his options on how to approach on living in the Philippines. As you highlight in your article, buy or rent comes down to the individual and how they want to live their life….
some view investments in a monetary sense while others view it as quality of life vs time…
I for one am moving to the Philippines to get the most out of my life….. where time is afforded to pursue my own agendas, and not worrying about how to stay alive…. this ideology of how I want to live my life dictates how I should invest..
I’m a buyer, but that’s me..its because it meets my objectives…. for yourself….at this stage is renting…
your article has now made me consider renting as a feasible option to still meet my objectives…
appreciate the point of view bob… makes my planning more comprehensive and less likely to fail..
Hi Bryan – Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it is interesting. I have not been to Las Pinas before, but I always hear good things about the place, and will try to visit there sometime!
Rent vs buying? – it not only depends on one’s financial matter, but also depends on the real estate market. for those (like me) who live in a rapidly rising market like beijing, china, which rising the average price 8 times in last 10 yesrs, they should buy a house or apartment, but for the people who live in a slow rising place like philippines, maybe renting is more appropriate as i can keep the apartment in beijing and get the rising benifits from the investment , and i use the money of renting out for the rent in philippines, instead of selling the apartment in beijing to buy a house in philippines as i thought before. Which is what i got from tht article and everyone`s comment.
Thanks to all of you.
Hi Susan – Getting into the property management business might be a good thing to do in Australia, since many people are renting as you say! I wish you the best of luck!
@ Mike, there’s a lot to be said for bamboo hahahah 🙂 … personaly i rent now … I found out it’s safer that way (the hard way) hahaha
Jim, I totally agree with her.Here’s mine: We are down here for a good time, not for a long time.
Best regards to you and your better half.
Hi Bob great thread, I was contemplating buying here in Cebu city untill a friend pointed to many Australians now going to USA to buy forclosed properties and renting them, you might find this article from CNN about how these Aussies are doing it.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/29/news/economy/australians_real_estate/index.htm
Bob: Rent or buy, ain’t life grand in the old P.I. May I add that opinions are like (fill in the blank) everybody has one.
Ciao:
Hi Daniel – Thanks for sharing your perspective on this. I couldn’t agree more!
Hi Bob,
I always owned houses in the States. Most of the time I made good money off of them. I also read many news stories about renting vs owning. It always came out as a wash. NO difference in the amount of money spent. Here in PH I rent and at my age and income I don’t see owning a house. Too old and not enough money. Good luck on your move Bob. Davao is just too big of a city for me. Well Tagum is also too big but it will do for the moment. Bukidnon looks good to me. Maybe a few chickens and a goat would be nice plus a few pineapples. 🙂
All the best to all,
Gary
Thanks for sharing that Bryan! Interesting to learn about the situation in Scotland!
Hi Bob – Buying a house in the Philippines and buying a house elsewhere in the world are birds of a different feather.
Plenty of strawman arguments appear on either side of the buy-rent debate. One I always see and wonder about is the cool near-half million of dollars that could be better invested in the market while renting. I don’t personally know anyone (or all have kept it well hidden from me) who has that kind of money to plop down either for a house or for a share of the market.
The argument makes sense and sounds logical. It’s just that in almost every case of buy-rent decision making, the ponderer isn’t plagued by that problematic choice.
I think the better argument dealing with buying in the Philippines is the near non-existent familiar mortgage terms that make owning a home in other countries a dream come true. One can’t shop for a mortgage (let alone find a lender) here in the Philippines, and Joe Six-pack’s 50 year $500,000 mortgage is a dream that just isn’t going to happen here in my lifetime!
Additionally, there just aren’t any fools in the USA or elsewhere who will lend you money to buy your dream house in the Philippines. A PH (newly preferred designation for the Philippines over PI and RP) home dreamer will need to use “creative financing” to get that dream happening. (Now, where have I read about that before?)
😉
Hi chasdv – I think that regardless of desire to purchase, renting for at least a couple of years is an important thing to do when moving to a new country. Wise move, my friend.
Got ya! thanks mate, cheers!!!!
I have owned and rented and now at this time in my life I rent…One thing I did like about owning years ago is you could pretty much do as you wanted with the house,yard,land and etc as long as you did not have any covants on the deed saying other wise. With renting you do not really have the same liberty for doing as you want. So…to me its really up to the person or persons on what they do and how it fits their life style or wallet or what ever works for them……We all have different needs and wants at different times in our lives…great post Bob and lots of different comments…or view points….
Hi Bob – A slightly different slant on this debate. What contingency plans if any does one need in place if renting and you require lengthy hospitalization and convalescence if one is either working here in the Philippines or on a fixed pension?
Regards.
Jim.
I really don’t think this horse is going to get back up!
Obviously, choosing to buy or rent depends on personal circumstances & desires. It certainly is not a determination of bravery or cowardice, whether one is “invested” in their community or suggestive of one renting a bed-mate. That is ridiculous!
I agree that renting is a sensible thing to do. My reasons for developing our own properties are that they are on the beach and I want to be the one who decides what structures are built, and where. I want to be able to set rules that keep my beach clean. I wish to choose who comes & goes. Still, I do have the worries of investing money in property that I could lose, were my wife to pass away early (simba ko). So, I don’t think that either renting or buying is the perfect solution, but I agree with those who believe that you should be pretty sure of where you want to live before buying/building a home of your own. I do intend to build long-term rental accomodations on the beach, but fully expect that tenants will come and go, as they arrive and, later, buy or build their own place, or move to “greener pastures”.
Hi Roberto – Ha ha… that’s true always!
Thanks for sharing your experience, MurrayB. I hope that your 6 months in Bohol is very relaxing and pleasurable!
Hi chris – I used to live in one of the more exclusive gated communities – Woodridge – and there were similar problems there. You just never know! 😉
Bob, Lebron James the American Basketball superstar has a new commercial out done by Nike. Its not related to housing or renting but suggests that he does what he wants to do reguardless of what any pundants think about him or his life. Check it out via You Tube. I think you will relate to it very much!! Something i truly live by, but hey thats just my opinion.
Bob;
Using common sense and a forward thinking Barangay Kaptain, my wife stopped the guy next door from raising pigs in his yard. Chickens? We just gave him that one, without a complaint. (I’m up before his rooster anyway) (lol)
Yes…Bob you are right on the pig farm….that is why if you are going to buy land, buy big and live in the middle of it…and hope the wind blows away from you….
I agree with you Bob about the article you posted about renting. Renting gives you flexibility and freedom as you can easily move from one place to another. Buying a property is of course always a good option as this will serve as your investment in the future especially the price of house and lot is getting higher.
Thanks for this great post! 🙂
Or, you can just get ready for some pork! 😆
I couldn’t agree with what you say more, Mike!
Hi Gary – I can’t disagree with you that Davao is too big a city. It’s getting that way for me too. I could handle the size, if something was being done to alleviate the traffic and congestion, but I don’t see any plans in the works.
Bukidnon is one of my very favorite places. Samal too… but I worry about whether the hugeness of Davao City will creep over to Samal.
Hi, I’ve been looking at this site for a while and specifically wanted to contact Bob because I know he lives around Davao. I’m on SSD and single and have my Daughter with me now but was thinking of relocating whenever she decides what her future plans are (she’s 17).
Anyway, the bottom line is I’m only going to get around $1400/month and just wanted to get you opinion on renting a place at first. I have some Savings also to get started but not enough to buy. And lastly, if you could recommend a place to stay for a few weeks just so I can get a taste of Davao. Thanks in advance.
Doug
I wanted to comment on the squatters article but the comments were closed. I hope its not too inappropriate if I say something here. If so, then just don’t post this. The reasons for the squatters problem, I think, is because the money is in the city. Some squatters even own land and a house somewhere else in the province, but there is no work there and its too far to commute. So they leave their homes and move to the cities and squat while they try to make some money begging or selling street foods or possibly even more prestigious work.
And yes, its not fair to the owners of the land where they are squatting. And its beyond belief that they would refuse to leave, they should be more humble and realize their position.
And relating to the renting vs. owning discussion: Owning a piece of land locks you down and in a world that’s constantly changing, that could prove to be a problem.
Renting gives you the freedom to move, and in a way, renting is a more stable alternative than owning since you are not putting all your eggs in one basket. Then if you have a problem… with squatters, neighbors, water stops working, constant brownouts, etc., you can move.
And besides that, a foreigner in a foreign land, even if he is legally a resident, should never really fool himself into thinking that he is equal to the natives, he will always be a guest, maybe a long-term guest, but still a guest. A testament to a country’s humanity is how well they treat their guests. So what can you say about the Philippines?
Hi Jim – I am sorry, I thought you were asking me, since you addressed it to me.
hi bob,
we also live in davao and we share your view about it.
i would like to know to where would you want to move?
cebu and manila are even more congested and polluted and any other town does not have even a mediocre infrastructure.
we will probably end up in mexico. same prices or even cheaper, quality of life 50% higher..
also please tell us what happened in woodridge. what kind of conflicts did you have with your neighbours? i do not live there but i play tennis in woodridge.
fred
it is something unusual Bob, and it makes me a bit sad.
I have been phili 3 times in the past 2 years. I love to stay in Palawan and Boracay. Not the 5 star hotels, but the 2 and 3 start hotel as there you get to meet the real phili ppl.
I was there May 2011 for 25 days, loved eveyrday and meet some great ppl.
I heard alot of Western complaints not just Americans. I got sick and tired of Western ppl complaining about little things. I even jumped in at one hotel I was staying at becasue a Western person was yelling at poor phili girl at the front desk about the tour they took that day and was a longer day then they anticipated. I will not use the colourful language that was spoken. After I stepped in and told them what for they backed down as they did not like me (Australian) having a go at them.
I asked the Hotel management does this sort of thing happen often. The response I got. “Getting worse”.
After I left Palawan for Boracay. As I have stayed in the same hotel in boracay 3 times, I have a good relationship with the owner. I was talking about what happened in Palawan and how upsetting it was. The owner said ” Western ppl are forgetting this is Phili not the USA/Australia/Germany. Ppl are expecting far too much, it is not there house back home. They have had to remove ppl from this hotel because of the abuse some ppl have given.
I love phili and the phili ppl. Wish I could be there 100%
Bob
Honestly I could see how Filipino/s would not want to deal with Americans. When we pay rent we pretty much want everything/issue taken care by the landlord, he owns it he fixes the problems and issues. And I think it is in our character that we are frank and to the point when we have what we feel is a issue and want it taken care of.
I hope the Filipino nation on a whole doesn’t trend to judging all Americans by the acts of some “Ugly Americans” that they may have dealt with in the past.
Hi Paul – I believe you, and I think you are correct that this is a problem that is getting worse. Maybe westerners are under stress due to the poor economy, I don’t know, but they do seem to be taking out their stress here.
Well the way I look at it is the difference in age groups. When I was in P.I. back in the Vietnam days, we were young and had a great time. More laid back then, now it’s go go go go!, and me me me me! People are more rude and self-centered. I think it comes with the times. There are more people in the U.S. now and we are turning into Asians. Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Indians….and other asian cultures have come to the United States and they are pretty rude here. They bring their cultures with them and expect to have their demands met too. Back when air travel was still a luxury, we traveled less and we were in awe of new cultures. Now I believe this world is one big melting pot, and we are all fighting for more service and quicker results, because we have made more money than our fathers did. My parents were lower middle class, during the war years and into 80’s. Now it seems everyone is rich, and can travel at a whim. So when we go some place exciting, we want the same service we get at home. It’s truly a shame that our bad habits follow us where ever we go. And by “we” I mean every culture.
Hi Precy May – Thanks for commenting. Yes, I agree, it’s really unusual compared to the past!
Hi Bob: Maayong buntag. Ang among ginikanan na-ay rental homes nya gibilin sa amo, para sa retirement. Ang akong igso-on ang legal executor. Siya retired na sa U.S. Navy. Gipag rent niya and properties para makabayad sa taxes, insurance, ug dili na mahimo sa squatters. Na-ang managers on-site. Ang among managers mag sulti in reference to “Americano” kong ang renter “Puti” bisag dili Americano. Basa puti, “Americano” and ilang tawag.
Hi Bob,
Yam lives in a four unit apartment building in Cebu. It is among a cluster of buildings that form a residential compound. Several months ago a middle-aged American moved in. He was a nonstop complainer, and a loud one at that. He put the entire compound on edge and I’m sure has made the landlord much less inclined to rent to Americans or foreigners in the future.
His complaints were often about things that I consider part of the cultural fabric of Pilipinas residential compound living, and therefore, should be out-of-bounds for us to try to change. For example, he was constantly shouting about people’s roosters’ noises and he wanted people to keep their dogs from wandering around in the compound.
Usually he spoke down to all Filipinos as if they were all idiots and he was inconsiderate. He would take his trash and throw it onto other people’s space.
There was a common gutter system that ran along the back of the entire building. It was shared by each of the building’s apartments. His was the furthest “downstream.” He built a little dam blocking it. That caused everyone’s laundry water and “outdoor kitchen” water to have nowhere to go and flooded the other three apartments. He was completely unapologetic, and thought it was his right to prevent other people’s stream from flowing past the back of his apartment.
On the other hand, he thought it was none of anybody’s business when it came to his lifestyle. He had an endless parade of women coming and going which was a bit of a scandal to everyone. If the Ayala family weren’t already rich, he personally helped out at least the next generation get that way; he drank San Miguel as if his mission in life was to make them millionaires.
As I said, he changed the entire atmosphere of the compound, and very negatively at that. Because of Pakikisama, nobody wanted to confront him. And yet he was so much in violation of Pakikisama his impact was much stronger in a negative way than it would have been if he had been in the USA. Over there he would have just been a bit of a “jerk.” But in that Filipino compound his disturbance of the harmony of the compound was so severe I think the residents are emotionally scarred for life.
Fortunately for everyone in the compound, he got “fed-up” with the way the Filipinos were, and moved out, taking his constant yelling and his harem with him.
I still can’t get over the fact that he actually tried to get the landlord (who only owns his house and the one apartment building) to order all the neighboring houses to get rid of all roosters.
Hey Bob,
It is not how most Americans think about Mexicans, it is how we feel about all the 12 million illegal mexicans here that are demanding rights, expect our tax dollars to support their children in school and etc. I just wanted to clarify there is a difference of being in the country legally or not.
art
Thoughts to consider there, Bob. Anti-foreigner attitudes are spreading widely across the world right now. In the US, individual states enact their own anti-foreigner laws, believing that the federal law isn’t strict enough.
In Europe, the Schengen Visa (which allows free travel between European Union countries) has been suspended or heavily restricted by many signatories.
In Thailand, which formerly had a tourist visa policy nearly as flexible as the Philippines, visa renewals are now essentially limited to one time only.
And of course, who can forget the recent outrage in Norway … true the product of an extremely deranged man … but anti-foreigner in nature none-the-less.
I certainly don’t think it’s a Filipino-American issue only.
Well I can understand why some may feel that way. I am sure there is many people that come from America that for some reason they think that the Philippines is ran by America and they think that everything should have the same type of treatment as America. How far from the truth they are in my opinion. Now do I feel that who ever you are should get what you paid for or was promised. Yes I do, but do i know that some times that means different ideas in different countries why sure I do. So what i would suggest is that these Americans that are having problems get out of their little bubble and get to know the the Filipino people and their cultural. I remember all the years taking college students to Cancun Mexico and they would get into trouble or they did not like something and they said they would sue or have their family attorney get them into trouble. I would laugh so hard at these kids and remind them about the pep talk I gave them all on the plan ride down that once they got on the plane and sat down they left their rights back at the ticket counter and now they are no longer covered by any american rights, they would all give me the deer in the headlight look and say OK. then when time came and they were in trouble they would ask for help and I would remind them of what I told them. They could not understand why they had been locked in a jail cell for 3 days for throwing gum on the ground. See so i don’t think the problem lies with in the Filipino people, i think it lies with the Americans and other top countries that are used to certain laws and requirements when you pay for something and its not what they feel is standard. These people very fast, learn that they are no longer in Kansas anymore and have been taught a hard lesson. So should Filipino people stop doing business with american people? I say no, but should the Filipino people try a new way to market their rentals and realy describe the rentals and work that they sell of rent out, Yes that way there is no confusion from the start from either side. The person renting or paying for the service will feel better and I think both sides can make a better business relationship for a long time. I dont know if that ran all over the place, but I can see a bright future for everyone as long as communication is the number one factor for each party.
Does Jose Antonio Vargas ring a bell. I wonder how Filipinos queueing in the US Embassy feels.
I do have mixed feelings about “immigration reform”. From how I read the immigration reform proposals, it’s more of amnesty to illegals than helping people come to the US easier.
I think the US just needs to enforce its immigration laws…and strictly define the 14th amendment (it is just too vague and open to interpretation) because the lack of those affect a lot of overseas Americans. Just imagine the ridiculous requirements when a US citizen wants to pass his citizenship to his offspring born abroad. Even though I am non-American, I find it ridiculous that people on tourist visa can have a citizen child. I’ve come across Filipino forums where they are discussing that they are going to the US on tourist/visitor visa to give birth in the US. Maybe the State Department should create a “Birth Visa” instead.
Imagine the case of Flores-Villar. Born to a US father in Mexico but cannot be a citizen because his father failed to meet the 5 year residency requirement after 14 (his father sired him at age 16)… (and now some people are pushing to legalize the illegals)
Hi art – I am not in favor of illegal aliens either. But, think about this.. most Americans, at the sight of a Mexican, automatically assume them to be illegal. That’s what I was talking about.
Hi Rich,
That was the Coast Guard I was in. Search and rescue and many other things.
I only spent 4 years active duty and I got mighty tired of treading water all that time.
To this day I cannot swim 10 feet. Oh wait. Yes I can, but unfortunately the 10 feet is straight down.
Maybe I should have been a submariner ?
Like I said to Mars that also was in the Coast Guard, that is what boats and life jackets are for.
I know plenty of guys in the Air Force including the pilots, that cannot fly a lick without their planes or parachutes.
So I don’t see any difference, do you ?
We never lost anyone because of my rather limited swimming ability.
If you lost your anchor though I was the guy to find it.
Ask Bob for my email address if you want to trade some stories, I’d like to hear your tank & Vietnam experiences.
Now back to Bob’s topic. Well……………. it’s like this Bob…………….and then……..
Hi Dan – In your comment you said “that’s the attitude you get from the article and the comments” (bashing Americans). I wrote the article…. 😉
Methinks that the reason a lot of people move to the Philippins is to get away from crappy self centered neighbors and a goverment that protects the rights of the low lifes to infringe on and take from the working class. It should be no surprise that the worst of the crappy neighbors just might show up in foreign countries to continue their crap. Especially a country like the Philippins where the people are basicly tolerant and will put up with a lot more than some one from another country might. Too bad some one didn’t call the local police and complain about that guy. A few years in a Fhilippino jail cell may have mellowed him out and made him easier to get along with. In America the renter has all of the rights and the land loard has the problems. A good share of the rental units are trashed and left with unpaid rent by the time the tenant is evicted. Oh well hopefully not too many of this type will make it to these wonderfull islands.
Hi Dave – I have to say, the thing that really surprised me on this is that property owners told Feyma that they did not wish to rent to Americans. They specifically told her that other foreigners were fine, but they preferred no Americans. Seems a bit surprising, don’t you think?
Hi Brent – You are so correct on so many levels. Like you, I don’t blame the Filipinos, I think that it is a few American bad apples who make life difficult for other Americans here by causing trouble and such. They set a bad example, and it rubs off on all of us. That’s a shame, but it’s also understandable.
You are right, Pete, we sure don’t need that “Us vs. Them” attitude!
Pete,speaking of Canadians, 15 years ago I had an American guy help me paint my house. During the Viet Nam war he was in Army intel/communication.He traveled a lot. He told me whenever he wore civilian clothes no matter what foreign country he was in,he would wear a Canadian pin & sometimes hat. He said,he learned that foreigners generally have a much better opinion of Canadians than Americans.He wore the Canadian pin to avoid trouble. By the way,I also read a survey once that declared “According to foreign woman asked in a survey, Canadian men are perceived to be or actual make better husbands than Americans” I don’t recall the exact details of the survey,but I do recall foreign woman preferring Canadian men,next American as husbands. Of course as I recall,the woman preferred Canadians & Americans over men from any other country. So,I guess a person can conclude that American men on average are a good catch “Internationally speaking” or at least they are perceived to be. Whenever a country is perceived to be rich & or powerful,there will be jealousy,envy,resentment,fear etc, We Americans will need to start worrying if the Canadians & Mexicans start/finish building fences to keep us out.hehe The aforementioned Re: Best Husbands survey is devoid of exact details. It is a general recollection & nothing more.
This brings to mind when im searching for an apartment or house i always let the little woman ask the rent price without me there first.Then i go look at it,i have had some jump the price by 2000 after they see me.It seems like its the older generation that does that.As far a fixing problems where i live now i buy everything and fix it and take it off my rent or it may not get done.I think on the whole filipinos like my money because they know i will have the rent each month to give them.
Again an article you write, has something that has happened to me recently, (funny)…..I been wanting to move to the Dumaquete area, and have been looking for almost 2 years for the perfect property, 2 years ago I found the perfect rental, but it was taken…It became available again 3 months ago, and I made an offer thru an agent who managed the property. He sent me an e-mail back saying the owner did not want to rent to an American. I was amazed!!!!
Hi Bob, It’s difficult as you say trying to be a reasonable representative of the US when all around are many brash, ignorant, whining and clueless foreigners acting out all around you. I think that foreigners in general have earned a reputation for being irresponsible and not being very respectful or interested in Filipinos as individuals or even being aware of their culture or ways. Many Americans are constantly expecting things to be the way that they have always known them to be, and not willing to compromise or see the lighter side of any situation.
Also, I think that many Americans seem to leave their common sense at home when visiting or spending time in the country. I read in the Cebu news almost weekly about some foreigner staying at a hotel or local bar acting foolishly and getting themselves in trouble or even worse, injured or killed. It’s no wonder that Americans might be looked upon with distrust, impatience or disdain.
I guess it takes an attempt by every concientious person to do their best to be mindful of how we as guests are perceived here by others.
if i like a place i rent..if it needs something fixed i just do it my self no problem..i like to work with my hands i have tools..i like nice yard also..so i make it nice..its like a hobby for me,we all need something to do here besides go to mall or complain..or drink,im not big on the drinking thing
Maayong gabii sa inyo sa States, Roselyn. Mao gyud, kon puti sila, Amerikano diri sa Pilipinas! Wala nay European o Aussie.. Amerikano lang kong puti! Ha ha… Maayong swerte sa inyong mga balay nga arkila!
Hi Neal – I think that the tendency to “judge a group” by the few bad apples is probably pretty endemic in every country. In the States, immigrants are judged. Think about how most Americans consider Mexicans, and others.
Interesting angle, Tom. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Kareem – Thanks for stopping by, and thanks especially for offering your view. Some of your points I agree with strongly, some I disagree with, although only slightly. Probably the most disagreement would be when you say for Filipinos to please give us a warm welcome as renters. Although I love the sentiment, it would be hard to ask that from somebody who has been burned, especially multiple times, by other Americans. I understand that not all Americans are the same, but we can be perceived to be that way.
Take care, Kareem.
I think its a generation gap/difference. Americans of the 50’s until the 80’s probably had grandparents who lived and served in the philippines (back when it was still US territory) and had a much better understanding of the people and culture here.. old people i’ve met we’re generally nicer… don’t worry.. it’s not just filipinos who had issues with rude westerners… my sisters’ father in law (a texan) always complains about how rude the other american guy (living across the street) is.
Also, i don’t that what you’re experiencing is outright hostility. I think it’s a reaction from filipinos who felt insulted by westerners claims that all filipinos are out to steal or are after them for the money… its probably our way of telling people that not all of us can be bought. Its not a racist thing since filipinos really dont care that much about race (im mixed greek/italian/chinese/filipino and most filipinos arent pure race).
Its not that westerners like to complain… its because some westerners (especially the younger ones don’t know how to respect others) it’s the materialism of the current generation, whether filipino or westerner who thinks that everyone, everything including pride, honor, and respect can be bought..
Or maybe thats just people in the cities. People in the provinces sure are nicer 🙂
Karina – Really, it makes me quite sad the way that you speak of your country. When you say that you live in Australia, how would you feel if I said “why would anybody want to live in that pit?” The Philippines is a great place, I have lived here for 13+ years now, and I love it here. I have, over the years, even considered giving up my US Citizenship and becoming a Philippine citizen.
I do appreciate your kind comments, but would only encourage you to have more love for your country. It’s not a bad place!
I am sorry, but I don’t think that what you say is accurate, Australian. Firstly, the USA did not fight the Japanese to “save their colony” – the US fought the Japanese purely because of their attack on Pearl Harbor.
Secondly, the article was about Filipinos not renting to Americans… because of the behavior the Filipinos have seen from Americans living here… nothing to do with geopolitical topics.
Hi Rick – I think all of us foreigners who live here or spend significant time here have lost it from time to time. It is natural, as this place is so much different from what we are used to. I know that I have lost it on a number of occasions here. In the heat of the moment, I let things get the better of me, and after things have calmed down I am embarrassed and regret my actions. Thankfully, I do it a lot less now than I did years ago. You will too. All you can do is strive to improve.
Hi Walter, some of what you say applies to this situation. Over the years, though, it gap become harder for Americans to do business here, just my observation.
Hi Henry – Plenty of people are deported… it all comes down to respecting others!
I don’t think that politics or war has anything to do with the phenomena that I wrote about in this article. It’s the attitude and behavior of my fellow Americans here in the Philippines that created the problem.
Succinct and spot on! I agree 100% Robert.
I think you have some valid observations there, louie. Of course, every nationality complains to some extent, though.
Hi Robert: Thank you.
Hi Bob,
I agree every nationality complains to some extent and Americans tend to be frank when complaining. And some Americans are bad neighbors and I bet they were a pain to their American neighbors too. I do get the feeling Americans are catching some of the flack for other nationalities shortcomings. I had the biggest problem with my wife thinking everyone who is Caucasian is a American. We would be walking in SM Mall and she would say “babe Americano.” I finally got her to realize a person is not an American just because they are Caucasian.
Of course, America has a responsibility to expel Japanese scums since the former purchase us from Spain for 20 million bucks.
Bob,
I remember the first time I visited Cheryl’s parents house the neighbors commented after I left how well behaved I was for an American. So I think there is some perception even in the province that Americans are spoiled brats. I try to over come that impression everytime I vist now. Not just in the province but any time I travel here.
Hi Bob: Salamat kaayo sa imong Binisaya. Ako, wala na nakasulat ug Binisaya sa quarenta ka tuig. Ang ako Binisaya nya sulat didto sa akong lola. Nagpahulay na siya. Ang akong inahan gusto man ug Iningles para makapractice siya. Pero, and akong inahan mag Binisaya kong motawag ko nila dinha sa Filipinas. Kataw-on ko sa akong inahan kog mag-Binisaya ko. Ing-nan ko niya nya ang ako Binasaya “slang Binisaya”. Kamusta na lang.
On one post it says “I think on the whole filipinos like my money because they know i will have the rent each month to give them.” Having had rentals in the states I was interested in two things when I rented property; The charater of the person I was renting to -*-* and believe it or not , if I thought the person that would rent my property would pay. I guess even though I am a kano I have a lot in common with the Filippno, I too was very interested in collecting my rent in exchange for the guy using my property. According to the trend Bob is saying is coming about it appears that perhaps the property owners are becomming more interested in the character of the people renting their property than in liking a persons money.
Hi Kevin – I don’t know whether to laugh at the guy or cry over the situation he created. You sure hit the nail on the had, though, of what I was thinking when I wrote the article. One thing you said was that it probably made the landlord leery of renting to Americans or other foreigners… I just want to clarify that in Feyma’s experience on this, the property owners are not adverse to renting to other foreigners, but it’s the Americans that are not acceptable to them any longer. Sad… very sad. Unfortunately, it’s people like your “friend” that are causing trouble for the rest of us!
I think the drunken American syndrome is a real problem.
I recently had an encounter with a Filipina mom with her two early teen age daughters. She didn’t want to sit near me in Pizza Hut. It was obvious.
I suspect she was afraid what the American, who is probably a drunk in her mind would say to her or her daughters.
All the foreigners that can’t leave the underage girls alone are also causing the rest of us problems.
A damn? Geesh, what a jerk. Roosters? Don’t like those but want to live in a compound? go home yankee.
Hahaha, Biz, I see you’re still plugging the book I wouldn’t read because of the Magellan thing, that of Madame Carmen’s claim that Magellan did not discover the Philippines, but, rather the Indios discovered him. LOL I am further convinced that I would never read the book in light of what you just said about the “naval battle sham” between Spanish and American forces. She really said that? The Battle of Manila Bay was a sham? Wow. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t the “sham” (secret collaboration between Spanish and American forces that effectively shunted aside Philippine revolutionary forces from the surrender picture) AFTER U.S. infantry had disembarked from U.S. transports arriving from San Francisco after a month long voyage, effectively denying the Katipuneros’ credit for the triumph over Spanish forces garrisoned in Manila? Commodore Dewey could not disembark from the Olympia to secure Manila after his victory over Montojo, but had to wait for about a month before the first units of U.S. infantry started arriving. This was when the “sham”occured.
you are so right Bob..i have noticed ,in all the airports ,restaurants,immigration offices ect..the biggest complainers seem to Americans
Bob: I agree with you that Kevin really nailed it… What makes situations like that worse is the Tsismis that surely followed, leaving a lasting impression on everyone. It is why I cringe every time I see and hear a fellow American going on about their “rights” is an obnoxious manner. It paints everyone with the same brush.
Bob,
Working in the law enforcement/corrections field i can pretty much tell if a Mexican or Central American is illegal. Don’t speak english, no social security number, don’t know where the live, no DL/registration/false tags and a pocket full of money. Alot of them will have a ICE Hold placed on them if they do not post bond first. The biggest thing that irks me about them is that when they get pulled over for drunk driving the officer will not charge them most of the time with DUI because the officer cannot speak spanish to conduct the Breathalyzer test or has no one to interpret for him. I’ve seen so many that could hardly walk be arrested, but only charged with No DL. Great article Bob! Be safe.
Ha ha… yeah, something about the States… once a person moves there it doesn’t take them long to become very American!
Topic creep is a killer of sites like this….
We just moved to a new house and ONE of our neighbors is complaining about our dog’s barks and I don’t know what to do. Haha! I am a Filipino and so are our neighbors. So who is the bad neighbor?
When I visit this site. I read the article and all the comments with it. With this article I spent a lot of time reading the comments more than the article and I love it because inputs are really wise here unlike other sites.
Thank you for a nice site, nice article and nice inputs!
Hi Bob,
That’s an interesting article. Haven’t come across that but I’ve heard a bit about the Koreans. One local town official commented they would prefer not to have the Koreans in their community.
Alex
Loved that Miranda warning, Scott! 😆
Yes Bob the rental market does seem to be good there. My pamangkin just finished a 19 unit apartment building in Olongapo and they had half of the units rented before it was completed. The last two weeks they had people showing up every day trying to leave a deposit. For some reason they wouldn not take it but put their name on a list and told them to come back on the compleation day. I guess I am fortunate as I think they intend to rent to one american, me. After reading how the attitude is changing there I guess I better be on my best behavior or I may be homeless.
the phrase”the ugly american ” was coined by exactlley what you said in your article
You know, I am surprised I even wrote that. I must have been in a really foul mood. Sorry Kevin.
I get back around some day.
Bob, I love the Rate this in the comments, I’m going to have to look for that.
You know, I am surprised I even wrote that. I must have been in a really foul mood. Sorry Kevin.
I get back around some day.
Bob, I love the Rate this in the comments, I’m going to have to look for that.
Yes it’s a sad situation, but it is how it is.
There have been a number of comments on here over the years about foreigners behaving like clowns, and that’s probably only the tip of the iceberg. It brought to my mind a comment by Bob Martin perhaps a year ago, when he said that he would often see fellow foreigners in the malls etc, and give a polite nod, but not attempt to spark up a conversation.
Here’s an additional thought: I met a lot of American’s and Brits (etc.) in Saudi Arabia, but only on one or two occasions did I ever meet any who were out and out ass*****. Now, I suspect that that is probably because Saudi Arabians believe themselves to be superior to Westerners, who are, after all, there as overseas workers, being paid for services rendered. Bit of a “role reversal” scenario really, compared to the Philippines. Perhaps people only act that way when they are foolish enough to think that they are in some way “special”, rather than a replaceable service provider?
Hi Tom – Gee, it’s really sad. I wonder why Americans are so like that. What made us that way? I suppose that the only thing I can come up with is that we are all so spoiled by the good life, and we have come to expect that we deserve only the best. It doesn’t always work that way, though.
In defense of my fellow Americans I would say most folks here seem to be painting everyone with the same broad brush. I never complain except to my wonderful asawa unless I have a very good reason. I never expect perfection but I do expect to get what I paid for, nothing more nothing less. Perhaps if some people did demand more….more from their government, more from their social services, more from their education department then life might actually improve for all.
Treat others as you would like to be treated is an oldie but a goodie. So easy to say yet so hard for some to do. And some just don’t care as we all know. The polite and honest people just need to perservere and keep setting a good example.
We have only lived in the Phils a little over a year and we are now in our second rental house. The first landlady( a Filipina) is just overseeing the houses her mother who lives in the U.S. owns here. This daughter was terrible is all I can say, her and her live in friend fought a lot and were very noisy and played music and karaoke at all times with absolutely no respect at all for the neighbors or their renters. And dogs in the sub to the point that my wife ( a Filipina) was afraid to walk at all as we were attacked more than once. No one seemed to care in the least. We are not complainer people I don’t think, butshould one be able to at least go for a healthy walk without being attacked by a dog ?, I should say a pack of dogs. Some places are good and some are just plain bad. I fixed and updated a number of things at that house and did not charge them for it. I don’t believe it was appreciated at all.
So we found another house not in a sub and a tad further up the mountain where it is somewhat cooler. We have a great landlady now that “wants” to know if anything needs fixing and has also gone to the mayor of her own accord to see what can be dome about slowing down the speeders on this street. Her idea , not ours. But I do feel it is just a matter of time before someone is killed. Our landlady has had a 2 other renters here before us. One a Brit and one Filipino family. She (a Filipina) says she will never rent to a Filipino again. We are very clean people and that is just the way we are, we pick up leaves and things in the yard twice a day as an example. As you can guess this gets back to the landlady quickly as many people go by this house that know her. She told us she never had renters anywhere that took care of a house and yard like we do. How nice of here to say. She had a no pet policy which we were o.k. with even though we really like dogs. She changed her mind on that and now we have a great pup who is our best friend. If you want respect you have to give it. I am up-grading some things for this lady also at my expense and she is allowing me to do it as I explian why it would be better to have this or that. So being she is so obliging we will be staying in this house a long long time, maybe for good. Now, things may not get fixed or up-graded quickly but it will eventually get done. She has a maintenance guy she uses all the time and he is so good you have to just wait your turn in line. It is worth the wait and keeps him happy her happy so no big deal. Would we like it done sooner ? Sure. But I scratch your back you scratch mine. No problem. But if it is soemthing like no electric ( other than a brownout), no water, or something health related he will be over here in a flash even on Sunday.
Now, our landlady has lived also in 2 other countries for a number of years, Does that give her a different outlook ? Probably. Bottome line she is great. Once our water was out and she wanted us to come over to her house and shower and spend the day. How nice is that ? We didn’t go as we just went to one of the mountain streams near here and “showered”. I am not saying I never get up-set about the noise and the fact they never enforce any speeding or driving laws, or motorcycles with no mufflers, it does happen. But that’s life. No place is perfect. Bottom line is a pretty darn nice place to live. Some people are super freindly and some not. I don’t see much difference that way between here and the U.S.
On the other hand I have had some really bad experiences buying used cars here from local dealers. They lie through their teeth and it doesn’t bother them at all it appears. That in itself is a story. No one likes to be blantantly lied to I don’t think. With one guy I dealt with I told him up front that the car had to be a 2003 or newer. No problem he said. Low and behold after getting the thing I discover it was maded in 1996 ! But after bringing this and a few other things to his attention that were not as represented I am a complainer ! This guy is a lawyer to.
Do you all think I am wrong for complaining that this vehicle is 7 years older than what was agreed upon ? Please let me know on that one. If I am wrong I’ll change my ways.
Just how is it anyhow that a car made in 1996 and gets imported here as a surplus as it is called has a year on the registration as being a 2008 model anyhow ? This seems very wrong to me. Fortunately I remembered now how to tell when a car is made by the VIN number, or you can look at a little tag on the seat belts where it connects to the floor. That works if the belts haven’t been tampered with. The VIN number is the beat way.
That’s my story for today folks. That’s life, some days are diamonds some days are stone. Some days you are the pigeon , some days you are the statue.
Again, don’t give up, treat others as you would like to be treated. The jerks will be self eliminating and I think most folks know that.
Have a fantastic day.
Charlie Tuna the ole manook of the sea. :o)
I hope so too, Loren. Additionally, I think that not only those who want to get away come, but there is also a large number of Americans who come here for two things:
1. Sex with young women.
2. Cheap alcohol.
The combination is perfect to produce yet another ugly american. As Kevin said when he told about the ugly american in his complex…. the guy was into these two things pretty heavily. It is often that type that makes a bad name for other Americans who just want to live a nice life.
Loren
I couldn’t have said it any better myself!!
Interesting.. you are exactly right about the Koreans, Alex. I had not thought about that, but the same thing has been going on with Koreans for a longer time, maybe 6 or 7 years now. It seems that Americans are sliding into that position now.
Frankly, I wish the Philippines would be a lot more selective as to the foreigners they let in. It’s pretty sad to say, but by default I tend to shy away from any foreigners I see, by chance, say at the mall.
If I strike up a conversation, it’s about a 99% chance the subject will immediately turn to all the litany of things that are “wrong’ with the Philippines, and why “they” should fix this or prohibit that and on and on. Often accompanied by loud and bastos language.
I’m no prude, I certainly can cuss when I lose my temper or I’m in a stressed situation, but I can complete a sentence or two without the F-word or changing the subject to blame the ills of the world on our current president … often accompanied by the N-word. It’s pretty sad.
As far as property rentals? I might move to another location and rent out my current home in the not too distant future. I wouldn’t, however, dream of advertising and renting my home to a foreigner. I would not want to subject myself to the continual harping, whining and general dissatisfaction with everything.
The last time I was back in the USA, I couldn’t wait to gte back home to the Philippines. You know why? Every American I met, especially older ones like me, seemed to be nothing but a veritable fountain of complaints, dissatisfaction and both covert and overt racism. And politics? OMG. Believe it or not folks, every problem you have is NOT caused by whichever political persuasion you particularly love to hate. I know that sounds simplistic, but it’s true,
I really feel I don’t have a country to go home to anymore …thank God for the Philippines, and especially the roosters 😉
no wonder Bob I don’t hear anything from some places I inquired during our stay in Davao…few hotels responded some don’t…only 1 condo replied to me she is based in New York a filipina that owns the place I’m interested…but in reality not all Americans are bad…every nationality has it own bad thing…regardless of how they think for Americans my husband will not change his mind of retiring in Davao;-)
Ha ha.. mao gyud, Biz. Ha ha… naa koy kurat usahay!
Hi Queenie – I could not agree with you more! You are absolutely correct. In fact, last night, a friend of mine, and his wife were here for dinner. They live in Cebu and in Manila (splitting time between the two due to business reasons). My friend is from Europe, and we have been close friends for more than 10 years now, and I mean very close. He can speak both Tagalog and Cebuano. I can speak only Cebuano (in terms of local languages). We were discussing this very line of thinking that you have laid out. I told him that without a doubt the #1 thing I have done to enjoy a happier life here in the Philippines is learning the local language. Can you “get by” or “make it” with only English? Sure. But, if you just “get by” you will never have a deep understanding of the local culture or the thinking of local people. If you just allow yourself to slide through with just English, you will miss out on so much of what the Philippines is all about. I personally believe that learning the local language (learn the language most commonly spoken in the place where you will live), it is the best thing you can do to give yourself a happy life, acceptance by the local people, and just all around better experience of living in the Philippines.
😉
oh Bob…I would like to see u and Feyma during our stay?maybe lunch or dinner?
Bob,
I have discovered that here in Dipolog every Caucasian is consider to be an American. A lot of locals have problems distinguishing between the various nationalities. One time I heard guy say he was from Poland and his local companion replied “What part of the U.S. is Poland in?”
I have met a lot of arrogant Americans while overseas and have had the chance to tell a few of them that they are not in Kansas any more! I have also meet and equally number of arrogant people from other nations.
But no where is the sense of entitlement stronger than from my own country.. the good old U.S. of A!
I have come to a conclusion over the course of many years observing my fellow countrymen in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and now the Philippines. Only Americans expect a good life. In my opinion it is that strong sense of entitlement that is ruining our reputation overseas.
I personally believe that if you have a problem with anything in life… look for solutions. That way when you present a problem you will also have several ideas that will improve the situation immensely. This approach has worked well my whole life and in every country I have lived in. I have found the concept to be universally acceptable.
Moaning and complaining about a problem never get much done except create bad feelings!
Guess I will wear a tee shirt with a German flag on it if I ever look to rent property in Davao!
Hi maynard – I’m glad that you have everything worked out as far as repairs and such. We also have good landlords who are always willing to fix anything that needs it, which I am very thankful for.
I am a filipina and my fiance is American. Very very nice person and loves my country. I am proud this.
But many Americans, including many on this site complain a lot. Always make negative remark about the filipines. Makes me wonder why they live my country when all they do is complain. If you don’t like my country leave.
I think many filipinos still like Americans but are getting tired of the complaining and thinking they better than us filipinos.
When me and my fiance stayed in condo in Manila the property manager was filipina. She told us that we were welcome any time. She said my fiance was nice and respectful and they appreciate that.
Many Americans think they are better just because they born and come from America. That is not true. Filipinos have respect also and want to be treated with respect.
Thanks to all the experts who have shown me the light of why Filipinos don’t like Americans. And I thought it was because of all the 50-70 year old men having wives in their teens or twenties
Hi Lenny – Ha ha.. yes, I am inside your brain, and document your experiences for the rest to learn from! 😯
Seriously, it really is amazing, but as I think about it, I can understand why it has gotten like this.
Hi Mark – I wrote this article some years back, and I have changed a fair amount since I wrote it. I am like the Texan that you described, I also feel uncomfortable with the actions of some of my fellow Americans who live here. I am in my 50s, so maybe you are right!
Yeah I don’t hate my country entirely and I acknowledge that even Australia has its downsides. But having lived in Cebu all through the 14 years of my life, I have parents, educated and hardworking as well as obedient citizens have been subjected to all sorts of abuse from the system. My dad lawyer had seen the really darkside of our society- lawyers who really fight for justice are shot down, I’ve got an uncle who is the manager in Ayala mall who abuses his employees. All those working in malls are paid badly and also abused, people working in haciendas were painful to my dad, my own rich cousins driving away the poor who were at their gate singing carols, my classmates who would often care only big brand items, and would constantly ask where I’d used to buy my shoes and clothes (as a rhetorical remark). These are the type of filipinos who I just can’t love- and many educated ones who are also working abroad would also agree with this.
Sorry if I said that harsh about my country. But I am just not happy over how the minority elites have exploited the people and look down on them. Things weren’t.like this before the Marcos admin- we were even ranked 2nd in the best run economy in the 60s of all Asia. Then martial law came and there started the cronyism that so rampant it became very ingrained in the filipino psyche. The many brains in our country have fled so there’s even less innovation and reform made from among the locals. The gov’t we have are still dominated from Marcos’ ex-cronees and their children and for as long as they are there many filipinos would still be exploited and remain impoverished. From where you are, Davao is actually one of the only safest place to roam about, but Manila and Cebu for low income working classes are just not as much pleasant.
I hope that I’m not being misunderstood that I totally revile my nationality, but that I want to be truthful with how things are over there as I also speak on behalf of those who have been victimized by the gov’t and its utterly rotten system 🙂
I know many filipinas married to older man, some much older. Not once have I heard a complaints about the man being older. Many filipinas look for older husband and that fine to most filipinos.
What is not fine is lack of respect and arrogant behavior of people just because they come from more rich country.
Hi Bob,
Its not just filipinos who have turned off americans. I think you will find in Europe and Australia as well they are generally not highly regarded. Its a shame because you have so many good people who post on your site but there are also quite a few who display the ugly american attributes of not only complaining and thinking they are superior to everyone else but also a loud arrogant pig ignorance born out of what appears to be a very poor education system in the USA which makes educated people cringe. Its sort of a flat earth mentality that nothing of any worth exists beyond the borders of the USA.
Dragging other western countries into useless wars and indefensible diplomatic positions to serve corporate masters in the US and her friends in Israel has not helped in recent decades.
While the US was wealthy and all powerful it was tolerated but now that the US sun is beginning to set the grudging fearful respect is waning with it and disrespect is spreading like a cancer.
What can you do? Nothing in my opinion – the die is cast.
cheers,
Michael
I like your attitude, harry! Keep it up!
Way sapayan, Roselyln. Kasabot ko sa imong kahimtang. kwarenta ka tuig? Dugay kaayo, Roselyn! Pero, ok pa ang imong bisaya! ha ha… maayong gabii.
Agree, Bob, but I was commenting on what you yourself said … it seems, overall, more of a world-wide issue, brought to light directly by Feyma’s experience. Maybe yes, maybe no …
Thanks for the advice Bob, I will tell them I am Canadian next time… haha nobody hates Canadians. Well You know us Caucasians all look the Same Im sure they were mistaken about the nationality of their bad renter. You know i have had bad filipino landlords making that siraan ng puri, peeping tom neighbors, I am not flipping the bill to make the water running rewiring the entire house etc por libre. I dont mind lightbulbs minor stuff. If i have 3 months advance on a place I know ill never see a centavo again of that money i will have to burn it up. Im not advancing self priming water pumps Paying for a new roof etc.. Thats Overreaching.. All these things are a two way street. Its typical whever you go bad Landlord Bad Tenant. The Us and Them mentality, Categorically lumping People certain Nationalities is Simple Minded. Filipinos need to move away from that kind of thinking so do Foreigners. People are people it would be better to think of people in those terms. That guy specific no good.. not those Americans all bad( i know i rented to one only).
Note: Hardly Grammatically Correct Almost Never politically Correct
Not allowed to switch flags, Bob! It’s going to be the source of much head scratching, as we make our way from nation to nation; Canadian owners of a U.S. boat. All I can do is promise my American friends that I’ll treat their flag with respect, until we re-register under another flag. Perhaps I should fly “echo” “hotel” pennants under my U.S. flag, as a hint.
I appreciate how a few bad apples can embarrass a nation of decent people. When I was the deputy warden (Can.) in the Davao area, we had an issue with a Canadian who came to The RP each year for a month of debauchery. While the jerk was escorted to the ferry to Cebu at the end of an M-16, it was hard to live down the jokes & criticisms around the golf club & other social venues for awhile. Pretty much all one can do is tell the offender – when possible – that they’re embarrassing more than themselves & hope that they get the point. Still, when it comes to suitable accommodations, is it much different to the situation that you found yourself in, Bob? The noise you experienced from your previous neighbours was unreasonable and you felt that it was important to take a stand. If those same neighbours also rent living accommodations, perhaps they have become less willing to rent to Americans because of the clashes they had with you? Not your fault, but possibly this issue exists.
Ha ha.. he does make a good point! 😆
Lee,
Though, I don’t have much concept of money matters, such as the effects of the US dollar on world per say. I am currently enjoying the low value of the US dollar. Our Australian currency has never been stronger! Buying for us is a lot easier.. ..er.. overseas…
Loren,
Most of the 220 v countries I have visited do have different configuration power points! UK, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia. France… etc…
Philippines is unique in this sense. They use power points imported from the US. I can’t explain why…
I have a friend who has his house wired with 110 and 220. He constantly has appliances at the electric shop for repair. He has implement a color code system which does not help. I told him to change the 220 voltage power points to the two round plug configuration but he doesn’t seem to care about his repair bill.. hehe
Ultimately 220 volt systems ares more efficient and came along after the US already started down the road with 110v distribution. One example of increased efficiency can be found in motor coil windings. The coil windings in a 220 vac motor are half the size/length of 110 vac windings thereby reducing resistance and energy needed to run the device.
John in Dipolog
Laughed out loud at that one. 110-115v has it’s uses; for power tools etc., but 22o should certainly be the international standard, as should driving on the left and spelling the word colour with a “u”.
😉
eI was raised an Air Force brat in the 70’s. Because my father literally traveled the world over, my sister and I were taught at a very young age very strict behavior rules while in public in another country.
Some of these were: Be polite to everyone. Remain quite till you know exactly what is happening. Ask for only what you need. Use what you are given. Don’t give a gift unless you know the person can give one back. Everyone is equal, don’t treat people like servants.
The point I would like to make is on the last rule. I cannot express how embarrassed I get when I see an American act like they are entitled to demand service simply because they can afford to pay for it.
We do it in our own country too. How many times have you seen some uneducated miscreant yell at a minimum wage burger clerk about mustard?
I am grown now and my job takes me everywhere. We are taught from infancy that America is the greatest country on the planet. I watch my fellow Americans daily with dismay act as though everyone and everywhere that is not US is beneath US.
AND THERE ARE MANY TIMES I DONT WANT.TO DEAL WITH THEM EITHER.
And it only gets worse with the ass falling out of your US dollar!
I’m FilAm living in the USA, retired USN (26 yrs.). Of all the years I lived, worked and interface with American, I can count with one hand my experiences as far as discrimination or perceived racism. Americans are straight shooter, they do not pretend, nor beat the bush. In the Philippines, discriminations are rampant and blatant if you’re poor, not connected and/or not related to powerful person. Rich, educated and powerful Filipinos do not like Fil-Am to live permanently in the Philippines, because we know how they operate, they want us just to “visit”.
During our visits (yearly) in the Philippines, we’ve experience first hand discrimination almost daily. My wife’s relatives are mostly very rich and powerful politician, income derived probably from stealing or corruption. They look down on us and quote ” I will never live in USA, I do not want to be treated like 2nd class citizen. At least the Americans sees the poor Filipinos as human being, but elitist Filipinos sees and treat poor Filipinos like animals.
Elites Filipinos sees African American as sub human, I know, because i heard them spoke about it. My point is American people are the most generous people in the world. Any cathastrophe anywhere, inclyding IRAN…the American are the first one to help, civilian or US Gov. Unless their behaviour is criminal, they are within their right to get what they pay for. One American w/wife living in the Philippines supports hundreds of extended families.
You are certainly right, Mark. The feeling that Americans are rude or obnoxious is prevalent in the Province and in the City! It’s hard to overcome at times!
Hi Michelle – for sure, it’s a bad situation, and caused by a few who cannot control their attitudes. Sad, sad…
Hi Michelle – Feyma and I would be happy to see you when you are here! Just let us know, and we’d be happy to get together!
Hi Loren – In Davao the housing market is very strong. Houses usually get rented quickly. I think much of the Philippines is like this, although I can only speak directly for Davao. So, in the situation here, the house is going to be rented out, no matter who it is. If they don’t like dealing with Americans, or feel that many Americans don’t meet their character standards, it won’t be hard to find a different, more acceptable renter.
Fully agreed, John. My only thing is that.. hey, I’ve done it myself, so it’s hard to complain. I am thankful that I moved beyond that “version” of Bob, grew up a bit, and am able to better blend into Philippine society. As Paul T. always says… if we don’t like it, we can always go to the airport and catch a plane home! 😆
Thanks, Papa Duck, glad you enjoyed the article!
HI Bob
Yes we are all fine. Thank you. Its no good telling me that my experience of Americans is wrong or ” a bit of a stretch”, like it or not that has been my experience. Great at home, loud mouths abroad.
It was me who told you that Brits can be the same, so no need to quote that. Maybe it is this mistaken impression they have of being superior to foreigners? I personally have had to tell both Americans and Brits abroad to be quiet as they are making fools of themselves.
All the best
Malcolm
Indeed, John, we shall see.
Hi Malcolm – How are you doing? Been a while! I hope you are well, and the family.
Come on, Malcolm – “every time” you met an American he was a loud mouthed complainer? I think that’s a bit of a stretch. Yes, there are Americans like that, but I don’t think every one, or even nearly every one is.
I’ve seen more than a few Brits causing problems here too! 😉
Hi Papa Duck,
Yes I agree with not getting up-set over things you cannot control. One will just go nuts trying to do that for sure. I at least learned a few things in my relatively short military time. One certainly learns there or you would never even make it out of boot camp.
I also think that “Only a dead fish goes with the flow”. There is a time and place to go with the flow and a time to swim up-stream or perhaps cross current.
I disobeyed an order only one time in my career and got a captains mast because of it. I will never forget that lesson and I would do it agian. Had I done exactly as I was told we would likely all be dead including the one we were rescueing. After being convicted in the captains mast I was asked to stay in the room after most people left. They said they didn’t want me to leave the proceedings with a bad attitude. What the Admiral and Captain told me was that “I did the right thing”. But they had to find me guilty as I did dis-obey a superior. But again they told me I did the right thing. The guy I dis-obeyed was one rank ahead of me and it took him years to get that far. He should not have been put in charge as he was not a good decison maker. We all make mistakes I know I make them everyday. But there is a time and place to not do as you are told. This happened when I was about 19-20 yeras old and to this day I still do not blindly do what I am told by “anyone”. No regrets.
By the way, there was no punishment and in only 2 years time I was promoted to the same level as the other guy. He didn’t like that! Shortly thereafter he was very very quickly transferred anyhow for stealing from one of us. You don’t steal from your shipmates !
Now, back to you Bob, I do tend to wander off. I think I am the original A.D.D. poster child.
I vote for the roosters by the way. We have planty of them here. I am just an old country boy anyhow. But why don’t they have “hen” fights ? Just dunk’em in water and they’ll be madder than a wet hen.
Cock-adoodle-doooo ………….. hahahaha
Have a fantastic day………………
Hi Ron – I’m not really talking about a house with a leaky faucet or a hole in the roof. The problems that many Americans bitch and moan to the landlord about is like the rooster 3 houses down that keeps them awake. Or the barking dogs half a block away. The landlord has no control especially when it is several houses away, and not in a property that they own.
Yes, I had trouble with my neighbors in Marfori. I waited until the lease was completed and I moved. I did not berate the owner of the house I was renting about it.
Anyway, roosters and dogs are part of the culture of the Philippines. If a person can’t handle the noise, then they should not consider moving here.
Thanks for chiming in with your comment, Ron. Nice to hear from you.
Peter,
The Philippines became a territory of the United States after the Spanish-American War. Under the December 10, 1898 Treaty of Paris, Spain ceded the islands to the United States for $20 million. At no time did the Philippines have freedom till July 4,1946. So America did not take their freedom.
http://www.nationalatlas.gov/mld/usacqup.html
I agree 100 percent with you Ron.. and yes i clinch my teeth everytime i hear that anti American sentiment, Most people Love their countries which are made up of People. You wont hear me say I love my Big Government and its Politicians.
Hi Pita Mike,
Glad to hear that you havent seen that behaviour in Bataan. I am from Balanga, Bataan and proud to be a Balangueño.
Would you mind me asking, where are you in Bataan?
Malcolm,
First let me say I am American. Born in Idaho and a Navy officer’s brat for the first 18 years of my life. Hence my wanderlust! I have spent 8 years living abroad and working for MNC’s. One of my hobbies is people watching. I enjoy figuring out what make people tick.
A quick internet search revealed an interesting find:
From this article http://www.mobilisa.com/highlights/newsA…
“Only about 23% of Americans own a passport and only 10% of those actually leave the country”
I will not argue how correct this figure is but let me say I believe it’s pretty darn close. This statistic indicates you almost certainly will not meet many “average Americans” here in the Philippines.
I submit that the 10% of the Americans who ultimately travel form their own unique bell shaped curve or population distribution with respect to personality type.
At one extreme of this micro-population are the utterly disrespectful, bossy, “Type A”’ personalities who believe they are God’s gift to the Filipino people. These are the ones who embarrass all American’s because they are sure they can beat the living tar out of anyone who challenges them in any way! Most of these guys are usually ex-military and can be found in abundance at the local watering hole!
At the other extreme is the nice guy who meets a girl online, or through an introduction, and honestly wants to enjoy the beauty and serenity that living in the Philippines can offer anyone who come here with their mind open and mouth shut! There guys usually prefer a coffee over a beer anytime!
Unfortunately the noisy, embarrassing Americans make a bigger, negative, impact on those around him causing rippling generalizations that affect the entire American expat community’s reputation.
I am not trying to make excuses for bad behavior but don’t lump all American’s into one basket. I, for one, am trying to make a positive impact here in my town. Ultimately I only feel responsible for my own behavior and do not accept generalizations.
If your ever in my neck of the Philippines… stop by and I will show you what real mid-west hospitality is!
John in Dipolog
Goodness yes us average Americans are ignorant, the average Australian is a drunk, the average Frenchman a lazy womanizer and on and on.
Hi Bob,
You’re an American who makes an effert to learn and speak the local language. How important do you think is being able to communicate with Filipinos in their own language as contributing to a shared rapport and understanding between the two groups? I wonder if an American would be so interested in needlessly complaining or going off on a rant if they could do so in the local language? I believe that many times, going off on a rant or constantly complaining in English is a kind of power play over a Filipino who might not be willing or able to join the dispute on an equal footing in English.
We can all make an effort to set better examples for ourselves as Americans, but I think that the patience and tolerance between the two groups is greatly enhanced by even a basic ability to speak the common language. Many real or imagined frustrations on both sides would dissipate with a better understanding through a shared local language. The language issue is something that is understated by many but shouldn’t be.
It goes without saying that the general perception held by SOME Filipinos that all Caucasians are Americans is the deeply-seated memory of American colonization of the Philippines, America’s defense of the islands in WWII, and their subsequent establishment of U.S. military bases, the legacy of which is still felt to this day. More often than not, it’s usually the folks from the provinces who are susceptible to this misperception, and would probably take another hundred years before the “footprints” of America disappear from the Philippine landscape.
LOL Bob,
Yep there are a few white people that are not Americans.
@ Bob you know we Americans are used to speaking our mind, so are expats from other countries. The “New Guys” have to learn to dull their tongues and gain some understanding…This is not an overnight process. Its hard in some places esp. some remote provinces to get what we consider 1st class service when the tools etc. Arent readily available even if they were could the worker afford them. Often these guys are doing the best with what they have. Another thing to consider We take technical manuals for granted Imagine working on some of the automobiles without any reference to tech data. Im hard set to do things my way the Proper Way, and it isnt always feasible or practical or available. People have to cut some slack to these guys they employ for a service and also the salty expat community kind needs to give a little guidance to the “new Kanos” If you remember back and really think, Probably there were times we made the very same mistakes. Though some are hard impossible to help and those kind may just have to learn the hard way unfortunately. I’ve personally done this for others and it made things a lot simpler for the newbie involved.
Dang,
My G/F lives in Pilar, Bataan right down from Balanga. She runs a internet cafe. Take care have a nice day.
I’m not just talking about problems with the unit, Joe. I mean, it is typical that Americans complain about everything from dogs barking to roosters and everything else. Those things are just part of the Philippines, and not within the control of the landlord if they are happening a few houses away.
John,
Totally agree with you. Human Rights will hold China back. Saw a story on TV about alot of college graduates there not able to find employment. Plus labor and cost of living is getting expensive there, which will make US Companies more attractive. I think China’s bubble will burst in a few years.
@John Do you think the Petro Dollar will shift to the Eurodollar ? I know you kinda study up on Economics of Oil futures.
Just what we need… 😯
❓ Not too sure about this, Dan. How would you come to that kind of conclusion. I never said any such thing.
I think China will become the biggest economy first before their bubble bursts… Just my two cents.
This ought to be a good movie. I love the earthtone colors employed in both the movie poster and the movie itself, as they bring out the natural beauty of rural Philippines. The movie trailer indicates an unbiased depiction of the horrors of the Philippine American War, but I doubt, though, that the movie would generate more resentment against present-day Americans than there already exists. Afterall, sons do not bear the sins of their fathers. or do they? However, although the movie is a fictionalized drama, the setting is factual, which does nothing but reinforce the long-held belief by most Filipinos about the atrocities committed by a U.S. Army hardened and embittered by years of American Indian wars back home.
I hope this movie about the Philippine American War will not be the last, because there is so much more about Philippine history that deserve world-wide awareness. Hand in hand with the Philippine American War was a lesser-known struggle. In 1899, the day after Spanish garrisons moved out of Mindanao and Sulu in defeat, the Americans came – a new foreign power to be resisted fiercely by the Moros or Mohammedans, as they were then called by the Americans. A Steven Spielberg movie about the U.S. Army’s pacification campaign in Mindanao and Sulu that led to the Bates Treaty, and. finally, culminating in an epic battle atop Bud Bagsak perhaps would be a good start.
Hi John,
I wish my fellow Americans would realize they actually leave their right behind soon as they leave US airspace. Just because you are an American does not mean your rights follow you anywhere you go. When you visit or live in a foreign country you live by their laws and customs. I think this is part of the problem and they do not realize they are being arrogant. I wish more people would think of their Miranda Rights and think of “You have the right to remain silent.” Because “Anything stupid you say or do can and will be used against you and every other American.” (I adapted the last one)
I was taught all my life to respect people and their culture. I know soon as I land anywhere in the world I am basically an ambassador for my country. I respect others and their traditions whether I agree with them or not. So my fellow Americans please THINK before SAYING anything.
Brent: When I worked in the Bahamas, I was there during spring break one year, sitting in a restaurant in Nassau (like a Bahamian carinderia, next to the street open air). A group of drunk college kids came along and decided to sit across the entire road, lying down in the street blocking traffic in both directions. Needless to say, there were some fuming drivers and the police arrived before long. The cops came, batons in hand, going up to the kid who appeared to be the ringleader…
“What are you doing here? Get up!!!”
“Dude, were just partying…”
“Come on!!! You know you can’t act like this back home! Go lie down somewhere else.”
A VERY tolerant warning that most US cops wouldn’t give. So what did this group of 20 idiots do? Walked around the corner and blocked another street.
Five minutes later, 25 cops, about 15 bleeding kids being carted to the pokey….
Boy, my national pride swelled that day… USA! USA! USA!
Hi Rusty – Yeah, I like that rating system too. Most people don’t use it though. 😉
Your population is over 300 million. You guys have lived in a vacuum where the world revolves around the US. which it did but the cycles are truly moving now and China, etc, will become the dominant world economies, etc. The average American knew/knows an embarassingly tiny amount about the rest of the world. Australia is confused with Austria, for example. It all stems from being the centre of the world and the general ignorance re the rest of the world.
Hi Lee… yep, I wrote about that last week, http://liveinthephilippines.com/2011/07/warning-for-american-expats-be-prepared
Without a doubt, Biz, Americans and many other westerners speak frankly, and don’t reserve their opinion. That’s quite different from the norm here, and can put off the local people.
I feel the same way that you do Bob. Being happy in the Philippines without knowing the local language is fine and acceptable for many, but in my opinion, it’s really just the tip of the iceburg to really enjoying, understanding and fully flourishing in the country. I feel that any effort to learn even some of the local language can be so rewarding in many ways.
Without a doubt, Lee…. the balance of power is shifting. It will be painful for many Americans.
lng have wre ko.
Hi SneakyPete – Oh, I am well aware, and have written many times over the years about my internal struggles to overcome this myself. As I’ve said, not only is it not an overnight process, I believe it takes about 5 years of trying to overcome it.
Three of My Uncles have Purple Hearts that they got in the Philippines. Filapinos do not speak Japanese because of Americans. I make no apology for being American. We gave the Philippines their independence. Rev. Bernie, Daddy Bern
Ha ha.. well, since it is owned by family, Loren, I think you’ll be safe! 😉
Hi Rusty – I think Kevin was talking about a dam… not a damn! Ha ha…. I know, typo… just giving you a hard time, my friend.
@ Rusty, I dont think the Filipina Mom was nervous her daughters because she thought
you were an American. Ang tanging mga pedophiles ko na narinig ng sa Pilipinas ay Canadian at mga Australyano What did u say? dai! wala kang pera sa food dai sumama ka sa akin saglit bigyan kita pera sa fud. Hindi lahat ng mga Amerikano ay Yankees ilang mga Rebels
well 🙂 Inside every foreign national is a little American trying to bust out
Katawa ko 🙂 lol
Hi Bill, I was stationed in Korea with the Army at Camp Humphreys, I spend time in Osan near the Air Base as well, I always thought the Koreans treated me very nice. I know some Americans who dreaded it when the 2nd Infantry returned from the DMZ, they would tear the town up, dring all the booze, harrass the women, then leave. These were mainly 19-22 yr old boys who were never away from home before. Unfortunately, the U.S. government does not punish offenders unless legal action is taken or a national incident occurs. Nobody likes drunken foreigners who disrespect their country.
But I agree, if you don’t respect yourself, then you won’t respect others. Like I said, I haven’t seen it in Bataan, and I hope I never will.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Bill. There are some really interesting nuances there!
Since I have been in the remodeling business here in the USA for over 35 years now, I have worked on homes from all walks of life. It seems most complain after moving to American. I just finished working on a home for a couple where the wife was Filipino. she complained about every little thing. So, I guess after people move to the states they really open up how they really feel. I guess when they are in their own country, they just accept the way things are, but that is not how they really feel about it. I hear expats here all the time complaining about how bad it is here. Hmmmmm! So, we go through the same problem with expats complaining. It is less a problem here because it is normal to complain, I think.
Just my 2 cents worth.
art
Hi Jim – Several years ago, as I recall, I wrote an article that applies here. I believe that the article was about something like the top 5 mistakes I have made while living here, or something along those lines. It’s been too long ago that I don’t remember the exact title. Anyway, one of the mistakes that I said that I had made was thinking I was special, because that is how people treated me, and that it took me time to realize that I was no more special than anybody else. The truth is that Filipinos do treat foreigners like we are somebody special, and it can go to our heads. The key is to not let it get to your head too much, because you will end up making an ass of yourself! 😆 I think that really applies here!
I have never been there but is there booze in Saudi? I am under the impression that if you are drunk in Saudi you would be jailed. If so it probably explains the differance in actions there and in the Philippins. Take away the SM and a lot of people would probably act a lot better.
Well they got what they deserved! I hope they got a few more wack from the police on the way to jail! They sound like PRIME upstanding examples of the government schools here in the US. And my asawa wonders why I said when we have kids they would never go to a government school here in the US.
I agree, Papa Duck, even if we don’t want to be, we are ambassadors of our country.
Bob,
Americans should always be ambassadors for the US. It’s so embarrassing when americans cause problems in other countries. When i was in the Marine Corps we had a military exercise in Denmark in 1983. Well one Marine decided he wanted to Rape a local Woman. Well needless to say he got left behind when we flew back to the US. I never found out what happened to him. Take Care.
Exactly, Bernie! Thanks for sharing that, because your attitude is what I was trying to point out. You really helped a lot by giving such a great example! 🙂
I went to boarding school with a majority of Americans in Sweden and have stayed in touch with several of them. My standpoint is that most Americans are good and upright people, but a few have this really off-putting Imperial attitude that reflects negatively on the good guys and mind there are plenty of you. Such a shame!
Hi Bob
How are you doing. I have traveled to most parts of the world, and every time I met an American , I have to say they did seem to be loud mouthed complainers who didn`t care whom they upset. So when I went to the USA for the first time, I expected much of the same, I was wrong, I found that everyone was very friendly ( with of course a few exceptions), everyone seemed to love the fact we were British, and treated us very well. So therefore I have concluded that Americans are great , in their own country, but seem to misbehave when they are abroad, yourself excepted of course (;-)). Its a theory, what do you think? Mind you, I have often found the same thing with the British as well!
All the best
Malcolm
Bob, you got me thinking this is why I married my wife Jenalyn — she’s more American than Filipino in many ways. She’d likely be like the old guy complaining about roosters crowing in the residential subdivision mentioned above, and she’d definitely “complain” if anything in the rental was broken and needed fixing. Me, on the other hand, would let a lot of things slide because I don’t want to “rock the boat.”
Hi Tony – I don’t think that it’s far to say that most are painting with a broad brush. I think that nearly everybody, and I know I have said that “a few bad apples” are spoiling it for all Americans. I have never said that it was a majority of Americans or even a lot of Americans. I feel like I’ve gone out of my way to say it is “a few” who are acting badly, and thus giving Filipinos a bad impression of Americans.
When it comes to complaining to the government, I personally do not feel that I have a right to complain to such agencies, since I am not a citizen here, nor do I pay taxes here.
kurat ko sa imong pagka-prangka sa imong opinion aning butang bob, abi nako kid-sensitive tanan topics diri sa LiP hehe ” )
cheers,
Maybe it’s better NOT to promote the Philippines to americans anymore. I have witnessed very bad behavior by americans on several occasions and I was ashamed of my countrymen. Many of those tourists are losers in the US. When they come to the Philippines they’re given a level of respect they’ve never experienced at home. In return, they’re abusing the Filipino hospitality and reflect badly on the rest of us.
What, you mean that there are white people who are not Americans? I’ve been living here long enough that I actually believed it!
Hi Bob – Where I was coming from was, if Femya was to say to the landlords if the American offered a little more for the rent could they be persuaded to change their mind.
After all money talks and if property stays vacant for long enough it will deteriorate.
Just a thought.
Regards.
Jim.
No offense taken here, Scott.
You’re correct, Bob. The Philippine revolution against Spain started in 1896, two years before Commodore Dewey defeated Admiral Montojo’s Navy in the Battle of Manila Bay on May 1, 1898. Philippine Independence from Spanish rule was declared on June 12, 1898 by the revolutionary government headed by Emilio Aguinaldo, and the first Philippine Republic was established in January 1899. The defeat of the Spanish Navy in Manila Bay may have hastened the collapse of Spanish rule in the Philippines. But the point is, the Philippines gained its independence through force of arms against a colonial power in 1898, as opposed to the July 4, 1946 independence, which was GRANTED, and not fought for.
Hi Bob and Ricardo,
Not trying to offend anyone here. The simple fact is there are three sides to this story and all will be different. I made only referenced this date as to show when the US would consider the Philippines as their responsibility. I again apologize if I offended anyone it was not my intention.
Hi Scott – Filipinos would argue that point. They say that they had already defeated the Spanish before they were given to or sold to the USA.
Hi Scott,
I agree with you that some Americans catch the flack for other nationalities shortcomings because of Caucasians similarities in their features. But in this case of discussion here, the property owner probably knew it was Americans that they don’t want the house rented to, because for every prospective tenants it sure there would be discussion about its nationality before they could actually occupy the house.
Some problem I see here is perhaps cultural. You see Filipinos in general are not complainers. If they see some minor things not in his/her liking, they tend to just shrugged it off and say “pwede na yan” or it’s just fine. On the other hand other nationalities deal with it differently, they would complain to every little detail. The locals would just smile to be polite, ok if that is want you want, but deep inside the mind thinking other things, you know what I mean. So the next time there would be Americans or other foreign nationals for that matter looking for a house to rent, they just would not allow it, even preferred the property just remain idle without income rather than rent it and later having constant headache dealing with this foreigner. It’s simple, if you can rent the property to some other people less the headache, why choose otherwise.
Most Filipinos have high regard for Americans, possibly because of its shared history. Some bad eggs maybe is changing it in times, but I think Filipinos would not generalized some few people’s bad actions.
@Bob sometimes the drinking thing is an expat thing lotta expats drink whenever they get together and it becomes a habit. Sometimes the dating isnt so much that it was intentional seeking sex with many women its the inability to find a woman that you deem worth marrying. The younger 19-25 pursue aggressively the western men, a wise man would run from the younger ones. I envy these guys that find a good wife right off one that marrys for the right reasons. I took a break from dating and dating sites. Yeh i think maybe the dating sites may not be the best place to meet that Special Lady. I dont drink anymore Im losing the weight i gained. I am going to try a much slower approach to dating as well, Just make my list of what Im looking for and take it slow real slow.
BTW You did forget
3) cheap cigarettes
I don’t see anything ugly about number 1 Paul. 🙂 haha
Hi Anthony – It seems to be a pretty new thing, because like you, I really didn’t know about it until Feyma told me. I also agree that you or I could overcome the negative perception, just with how we present ourselves and interact.
hi tom,
you might be surprised, but local culture doesn’t bend too well when being demanded. try coaxing.
as a pinoy myself, i find that i get stonewalled whenever i demand & expect what i pay for. that’s clearly an attitude i picked up growing up here in PH, but then somehow there’s a HUGE segment of the population that doesn’t quite see that it’s a good thing, or an advancement from values of yesteryears.
since i don’t intend to leave, i’ll have to bear with the situation and nudge things along on my personal capacity. changing the world isn’t exactly a national pastime ” )
cheers,
We sure are on the same wavelength on this one, Queenie!
Amen!
Neal,
Couldn’t have said it better. Be safe!
Hi Pete – I am sorry, I can speak Bisaya, but I can’t speak Tagalog, so I really have no idea what your comment is all about. I would estimate that 90% of our readers know no Tagalog, so it might be best to post your comments in English.
thanks.
Hi Jaye – I would highly recommend that before making any decision to move to the Philippines for retirement, you should come here first and stay for a month or two to see if you like the place.
I will say this… the Philippines is much like the US was 50 or more years ago when it comes to race. The “N” word is used freely here when referring to black people. It’s not so much a prejudice or hate against black people, rather that is what the people here have heard, and they just use it too. I feel uncomfortable when I hear that. I will say that I believe this has improved in the past decade and is not as prevalent as it was before. Come give the place a look before leaping.
Good luck to you Jaye.
Jaye, Sister you and your man come to the Philippines without worry. I am a black man who has lived in the Philippines for many years. To be honest, the lack of prejudice that i know all to well from living in the US is non-existent in the Philippines. I tell my relatives who ask that question all the time. You will feel a new found breath of life without the prejudice vibes that only blacks can really articulate truly in reguards to the struggle and crap we have had to endure in the USA. My only issue is that i wish i had a bid wist or a spades group to play with. You feel me?!
Ha ha, yes, Dan, I would agree, it’s always good to look for the positives in any situation!
Two thumbs up Neal! While I do feel most comfortable in the Philippines I would NEVER give up my US citizenship.
Hi Mike – I am not really sure how much time you have spent in the Philippines, but if every single Filipino has been a friend, and every single westerner has been a decent person… I can only guess that your time in the country has been limited.
Neil,
No problem brother! Thats what Ex- Marines do hahaha.
We are taking young people from Poverty Families and helping them get an Education. The only way to break the poverty cycle. We both work as on to GOD and do not care too much what people think of us as a group instead of considering us as individuals. Daddy Bern PTL
Hi Bob,
I take exception to your not paying taxes unless you know some loophole here I don’t know about. I pay 12% VAT tax on almost everything we buy. They even had VAT on an insurance policy we bought the other day.
Plus we pay rent and in that rent is our money that our landlady turns around and pays her taxes with.
I consider myself a tax apyer here and that I do have a right to use the available agencies.
If you are in the U.S. it doesn’t matter who you are, citizen or not you get police protection when you need it and your are guarded by the military and so on.
Just another point of view.
We are taking young people from Poverty Families and helping them get an Education. The only way to break the poverty cycle. We both work as on to GOD and do not care too much what people think of us as a group instead of considering us as individuals. Daddy Bern PTL
I guess I was not clear. What I am saying is that I do not pay INCOME taxes. Yes, we have a right to use the services here like police, fire or whatever. However, we don’t have a right to tell them that they do it wrong, they should do it like we think they should and that kind of thing. It is not our country, and we don’t have a right to tell them how to run it. If we don’t like the way it is, instead of complaining, we can most certainly leave and go to where we like it better.
hello?
I agree 100% Bob. We do not and should not tell them how to run it.
I can’t say I would really blame a landlord there in The Philippines for not wanting to rent to Americans or for that matter maybe other foriegners as well. If they can get the amount they want from someone local or another part of the country without the possible hassle or complaints why not ? Who needs headaches they can avoid.
I can recall just about every time during my visits where I have had to remind myself I am not in the USA and to keep my temper and for that matter my mouth in check. That can at times, take a little or a lot of extra effort.
Rather than ridicule the way some things may be done in a foriegn country or to just come out and say the typical ” Ours is better ” routine, I try to remember some of the situations that may at first seem a bit off the wall to me. Eventually I will find out why certain things differ and the reasoning behind it. After I learn the reasoning some things that at first seem so different begin to make some sense.
From my visits to The Philippines, the times that I have had to remind myself that I am not in the USA and make an effort to keep my cool, are far outweighed by so many wounderful experiences I have had, some of which I have shared with readers on this website.
I think each and every one of us is in some ways are like a representative of our own home country when visiting or relocating to another part of the world. For me it is worth the extra effort that is somethimes required to leave some kind of good impression and if not that, not to intentionally leave a negative one. Why mess things up for those that follow.
Hi Bob, I have not Noticed any of this kind of treatment, but I have not been working with rental properties.
Bob, I was the one who wrote that about trying to find an architect. I did finally find one who I think I may be able to work with.
Hi Charlie – When it comes to used car dealers, I am not sure there is much honor to be found, no matter what country you are in!
Sorry to hear that you’ve had trouble with landlords, but I hope your current situation continues to be good!
Charlie,
Really enjoyed your posts. Very entertaining. I’ve learned over the years just to go with the flow and everything will be fine. No use getting upset over something you cannot control. Have a nice day!
Exactly, Goran.
If everything worked properly all the time, If everything was perfect Most of Us couldnt afford to live here. A 30 year expat told me that, I thought about it and said to myself yeh he has a valid point.
Hi Curtis – Yeah, I had not specifically noticed it myself, but when Feyma told me about her experience it kind of surprised me.
Thanks Bob,
I hope I didn’t paint a bad picture. I was trying to show two sides. I was trying my best to cut it short as there is more to tell and by far most of it good. I have run across some very honest car repair places here just as a for instance , that wouldn’t take my money to fix something, as they said I didn’t need it even though I thought I did.
All in all I have a lot more positive experiences in the Philippines than negative ones.
There is no doubt that most used cars dealers in the U.S. are surley not on the up and up. In 50 + years of driving I have owned over 40 new cars/trucks in the U.S. alone. I am just tired of supporting the auto companies so I have made up my mind to only go previously owned as they say. There’s those “they ‘folks again. Luckily I had enough experience in my younger years working on cars and in the military as an Engineman as we were called, that I know enough that is is hard to feed me too much of a line. I will not make the same mistake twice I am fairly sure. I look at all these experiences as learning curves. Knowledge almost always comes with a price. Gee I think I should have a least a couple of Doctorate degrees by now. lol
Have a fantastic day.
Smile and the world smiles with you. :o)
Good for you, Shawn. I believe that if we are mistreated we should speak up. But, doing so in a polite and respectful way usually works best. What’s the old saying about honey or vinegar?
I’m not only smiling at your sense of humor, but also ROTFLMAO reading your entertaining stories, Charlie. OK, Manok of the Sea, if that’s what you call yourself. 🙂
Hi Charlie,
Two decades in the Navy and you never learned how to swim? That brought a smile… Got to love those life experiences. Maybe some day I will tell you how I managed to draw “Pro-Pay” as a Tank Commander in the Army, Vietnam tour of duty, and have never ever actually crawled inside a tank.
Personally, I don’t choose to believe that every Filipino is out to get me.
Thanks you Ricardo,
I am far from perfect but I try and keep a sense of humor.
Laughter is one of natures best medicines and exercises. I hope we all learn to laugh more.
You can call me Charlie, you can call me Charlie Tuna, or just about anything, just don’t call me Late for Panihapon.
I have had so many nicknames people have given me over the years that I have to look at my drivers license once in a while to see just who I am.
Best wishes and keep smiling and laughing.
Someone above wrote about America being the most generous country in the world, they are right about that. But not because of the point I think they were trying to make.
America is able to help so much because they have the resources to help. As a filipina I can tell you without a doubt most filipinas would happily help in cases of disaster, but we spend most of our time figuring out how to pay for our food for family and our rent. We do not have the income to help as much as Americans.
We have a home that being built in filipines and if something is not like we want we will tell the builder, but it is how we make the builder know of the problem.
Pointing out something is wrong with the building is not a problem, being rude and complaining about things all the time is not wanted by anyone. When I first moved to America I live in apartment, there were plenty of things wrong and I pointed them out, but I was polite.
I would see American in managers office complaining and being rude all the time. So many Americans are spoiled and see the world through only American way. Well I am here to tell you that the world no longer revolves around America, thing change now.
Americans are mostly really good, but just like my filipino friends and family they only see the world through their countries eyes. This why traveling and living in other countries is good for people. My fiance has good business in America and good life, but he would much rather live in the Philippines because he thinks people there are nicer and more polite. He like the filipino culture better than American culture…and so do I.
I do think rich filipinos look down on everyone else in my country but you know what? I see lots examples of rich Americans looking down on the average man and woman in America. I think all culture have problems with that.
Hi Manok, glad you still have the same sense of humor some of which you undoubtedly picked up while you were in the service. I was also in the same canoe club you were in, except I stayed for 30 years, where were you station in your 4 years?
Semper Paratus-Everybody forgotus!
Mars
I think it may be a whole lot more painful for a lot of people from other places than it will be for the Americans.
Hi Michael – Thanks for stopping by. Haven’t heard from you in a while!
Yes, I know what you mean. Americans are hated, or barely tolerated in many places all around the world. Of course, the only reason I wrote about the situation in the Philippines is because that’s what this site is all about – the Philippines! 😉
Hi bob,
One thing is for certain, It is not all about money the landlord can get from the americans, I guess renter’s character plays a big role whether the landlord would offer it to americans or not.
But, many don’t! 😉
Michael,
I think you are a little biased towards americans. Yes there are bad americans, but there are also bad Europeans, Australians, etc. I think your a little off topic too with your negativity!
John, imo that is a very insightful and accurate assessment. I have lived in the Phils, for the most part, since 1997. I have seen the the whole spectrum of foreigners who are here, having worked and lived in Manila, Cebu, and now Davao, as well as travels to many other areas of the country.
On a perhaps related note, my wife has been told on two occasions (we only arrived in June) by sales staff while shopping in various malls here, that “your husband is so friendly”. When I asked her why they would say that -I was just being normal. She said that both times the clerks told her that generally the foreigners are unfriendly, and never smile.
I see that myself and sometimes wonder why so many of these people look so glum, or angry or disinterested.
Hi John
Thank you for the invitation, I might just do that! Didn`t say all Americans were like that, just said those I met outside the USA certainly were! (:-))
All the best
Malcolm
Kung matandaan i tama kung saan ko tandaan rin, isang tao nakaimpake sampung Filipino sa mga manggagawa sa isang yunit sa isang tiyak na tambalan. Dahil dito nagkaroon ng isang kakulangan ng tubig para sa lahat. Huwag isipin para sa isang pangalawang walang Napansin ko narinig ang lahat ng mga reklamo. May ay isang salita na tinatawag na libelo paninirang-puri nito ng isang tao na haltak ng tuhod reaksyon upang makakuha ng mapataob kapag someones sabi ng asawa sa iyong g / f hey ang iyong b/f barfines na batang babae mula sa Rennosaince. Iyon ay isang kabuuang katha. Ka wouldnt tulad nito kung may sinabi sa iyong asawa na ikaw ay ginagawa na sa likod ng iyong likod at nagsimulang isang lahat out ng digmaan. Nagkaroon din ng isang norweigan na naisip ito ay mahusay na upang sabihin hello sa pamamagitan ng paglakad pakanan papunta sa aking apartment walang katok at upang simulan ang nagbabala sa akin ang unang araw, bago kahit i-on ang ref. (Im hindi ng paumanhin tungkol sa aking reaksyon namin talaga kayong kasama okay matapos na), Pagkatapos i ipinaliwanag na uri ng pag-uugali ay hindi katanggap-tanggap. Tila isang tao ay nakapagpapalimot sa kanilang sariling mga faults na habang ang mga ito ay ayaw kinikilala ang kanilang sarili. (Ano ang tawag na ang rationalionization kumplikadong.) GEE nagtataka ko kung bakit nakuha niya ang galit na ay napaka-dramatiko. May tila sa gumawa ng isang bit ng kalahatan ng kanilang sariling sa ka: dating militar na uri ay uri ng isang, tulad ko kung iyong itinalaga ang uri B positibong ugali sa iyong sarili. Siguro dapat mong reference ang Jung tipolohiya pagsubok ng hindi bababa sa ito ay may 16 mga kalapati butas vs 3 sa isang posibleng D. lol ako ay malayang sumuko ang aking musika ay isang maliit na masyadong malakas sa isang dating videoke bar, ako ay mayroon ding isang bit ng pagdinig pinsala ibinigay sa malapit hindi ko malasahan ito sa isang problema, kapag i ay tatanungin upang i-down na ay i readily.It ay malinaw na maliwanag ilang nagkasala ng overreaching na may isang kabuuang paglisan o pagsasaalang-alang para sa iba. Ang ilang mga tao ay wala na maunawaan ang anumang bagay ngunit isang malupit na tono Kapag Ive inabandunang diplomasya dahil sa bingi tainga ko ay maaaring pumunta sa isang mas confrontational diskarte. Alam mo kung bakit Pilipino ipaalam sa paglalakad ng mga dayuhan lahat sa mga iyon? Dahil sila ipaalam sa kanila, na doesn’t gawin itong tama sa paggamot ng mga tao na paraan. Amerikano ay mas hilig upang ilagay sa na pag-uugali. Kaya, Oo parehong kultura ay maaaring matuto mula sa bawat isa. Ang American maaaring malaman ang mga kaugalian at ang mga Filipino sa maaaring malaman na mas papilit mapamilit tungkol matatagalan pag-uugali nito sa isang pandaigdigang mundo mga na wala iangkop makakuha ng trampled sa. Mayroon akong mga kaibigan na Filipino sa ilang mga kahit kapit-bahay namin tinatrato ang bawat isa na may paggalang, At karamihan wala mahanap ako ng malayo mahanap nila ako friendly helpful at sa ulit mapagbigay.
“Some people dont understand anything but a harsh tone When Ive abandoned diplomacy due to deaf ears i might go to a more confrontational approach. You know why filipinos let foreigners walk all over them.. Because they let them. Americans are less inclined to do so, Yes both cultures could learn from each other. Foreigners lacking could learn manners and the Filipino could learn to be more forcefully Assertive about intolerable behaviour its a global world those that dont adapt get trampled upon.” The reality of it is their is a large influx in immigration dealing with it, Controlling that influx is not my duty. At a local level locals have to deal with it according to each/every situation. All countries have immigration issues. Passes the mircrophone.
michael: ” loud arrogant pig ignorance born out of what appears to be a very poor education system in the USA which makes educated people cringe. Its sort of a flat earth mentality that nothing of any worth exists beyond the borders of the USA.” this in my opinion is out of line and bigotted. Bob I am surprised this was not adressed as unacceptable?
Bob,
On the balance of power shifting… we shall see… the jury is still out, in my humble opinion, and time will tell. I remember how Japan was buying up all the assets for sale in the U.S. in the 1980’s. Then it was the Asian Tiger’s (ASEAN)… now its China.
The biggest problem China has to overcome is the basic human desire for individual freedom. As China become more successful and its people become well-travel they will begin to compare and contrast.
I don’t see how China is going to move forward over the long run…
John in Dipolog
Ideally we should go beyond someone’s colour of skin, the language they speak, their looks, the amount of material possessions they have, etc.. and just focus on the person- and treat each other with respect and compassion. I try to do it but I must say I do have a “big mouth” if I feel that I am being treated unfairly :-(. Sometimes I think that some people have misgivings when confronted with the unfamiliar…. Human beings are so complex and fascinating….And I must say I am one of the many not out to get you Bob. I think you’ve done very well with your website about Wao- for one. Ayu ayo diha.
Hi Mars,
Another Coastie / shallow water sailor. Nice to hear from you. I have an aquaintance here near Dumaguete that put in 32 years, yikes !
Conatct Bob and I think he’ll give you my email address and I’ll fill you in on the stations and duties.
By the way, I never did learn how to swim. Oh well , that is why we had boats and life jackets. :o) I only wish my so called superiors back then had a better sense of humor. I had some fun times in spite of them, I’ll tell you sometime how I got around the swim test for promotion. lol
Hi Brent – I often tell Feyma that she is more American than I am! 😉
Hello Bob,
Honestly Bob, My wife and I hope to soon move to the Philippines. I don’t plan to return to the U.S. I told her I don’t want to be around americans when I’m there. I frankly don’t care about them even though I was born here. I can be comfortable in a small place and small business. Don’t need fancy american style living. I don’t really fit in with the U.S. anymore anyway. I prefer the Philippine culture over american culture anyway. Thats the way I feel. Hope to be there soon.
Shawn..I am sorry about what happened to your purchase. There are people out to make a quick buck regardless of where they are. I nearly got conned myself a few years ago while walking around Gaisano. I thought it was a legitimate shop- maybe it was?. I got so overwhelmed that I purchased stuff I shouldn’t have. I have to fight tooth and nail to get my money back. I returned the products but persuade the guy to sign that I returned them- as advised by my friend who worked in the bank. I have to attach the signed receipt when I wrote to my credit card provider. Thankfully, they were not able to charge me. Sigh of relief, a big one. Not sure about the process if it is cash…wooh..and nobody signed the receipt? Good luck.
Hi John – Actually, it is not just Dipolog, generally if you are white, you are considered American. It is pretty much universal around the country. Still, you might keep that tee shirt handy, though! 😆
Hi Queenie – I would agree with everything you said. I see the reports too of Americans down here in the south doing the same kind of things. Often times I don’t even need to look in the paper because I can see it when I go to SM, or anywhere in public. Sometimes it’s quite embarrassing.
I agree that we all have to try hard to improve the reputation of foreigners, and especially Americans. Problem is that it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch!
I fully agree, Queenie, that learning the local language is a huge benefit toward becoming more at ease here (and thus less likely to getting feathers ruffled) and also being better understood … much more enjoyable and being better understood.
I envy Bob. Not because he learned Bisaya, that was work and effort on his part, and laudatory, but because he found a local teacher who knows her job and had the gumption to stick with her teaching for years.
Learning Tagalog, Bisaya or any other local language is not as easy as one might think. I’m very disappointed now over five ears, I’ve been looking for a Tagalog teacher, I’m willing to pay, and have never found one.
I talk to many Filipino friends, including ones who say, “Oh,Sir Dave, can’t you teach me how to make money”?
When I reply, why don’t you teach me Tagalog … how much per lesson and what textbook will you use?
That’s often the end of the conversation. I’m still looking … not every American who is language-deficient is that way because he is lazy or cheap.
Hi Deolinda – Thanks! I’m glad you are not out to get me! Truth is, there have been very few people here in my 11+ years of living here who were out to get me at all. I’ve had a few bad experiences here, but very few.
Hi Bob – Being a Brit and reading what I have read here all I can add is, I’m glad my forefathers stayed well clear of the Mayflower when it left Plymouth.
Seriously there are good and bad in every society but most people seem to remember the bad minority rather than the good majority.
I was thinking maybe this is the landlords way of increasing the rent.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Cheryl – Thanks for sharing your story here. Yes, there are plenty of complainers on the site. I don’t like it, but not much I can do, really. I’m glad that everything worked out OK with your fiance.
What a controversial article you got here bob! But i commend you for coming out and addressing this problem with a probable solution. Anyhow I almost had the same trouble dealing with my relatives about how my hubby’s visit to Phils seemed pleasant but later relayed a different picture. It made me pull out my hair when pictures were posted in Fb seemed to berate the low standard of living in Phils. It garnered insulting comments and talking down to the culture but he did later apologized for it though. At first i try to understand such behavior becoz there are really some truth to the poor state of my country and my undisciplined countrymen. My experience working in a resort exposed me to different cultures while Americans are really hard to deal with they really don’t strike me as perhaps the hardest. Yes it is hard to get away with there complaints and how they expect the highest level of service being spoiled to the standards back home. In fact with all the nationalities I encountered to my humble opinion some of the hardest i dealt with are Britons, Jews (israel) and Japanese (now imagine dealing with there complaints and majority of them don’t speak english?:o) Being married to one now my msg to some American’s is that I hope they will be more open and accepting to the culture as this is after all the third world (as my husband would insensitively note?) becoz as much as we would like to change the system this kind of system has already changed us and to us who been abroad it is easy to look at the problem from above the ground but to an adamant arrogant american who is visiting the country it will surely post a problem not only to your neighbors, your wife and her relatives but to all your relationships in general back there. I am sure good communication is the key to success… so help us God!…Lol=)
Hi Girlie – Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. To me, experiencing the culture of the country is the best and most interesting thing about traveling to foreign lands! That’s what makes the trip worthwhile!
Hi Dan – Perhaps it is a problem, but so far I have never seen or heard of such marriages being a problem in the Philippines.
They like us as long as we give them money,or help them with issues like the spratlys.
Something was said about expetations of how things should be because it is differant and a lot better back home. During my last visit my wife plugged her curling iron in to the 220 plug in and fried the iron. I ask the land lord ( my nephew, an engineer by trade) Why don’t you use differant plug ins here for 220, like we do in the U.S.A. ? His reply after giving me the how dumb can this guy be look “Why don’t they use a differnt plug in for 115 volt in the U.S.A? Most of the world is 220.? I looked at him and replied, “good point”.
Hi Rudi – I have been cut in front of in line here in the Philippines plenty of times.. I hadn’t thought, though, that it was because I was American! 😯
my philosophy,and belief thru experience,that no matter where you are in the world ,if you treat ALL people ,with respect and dignity, they will return with like manner ..thats a general statement ,obviously with some exceptions..most americans are spoiled from birth
I would have to pretty much agree with you on that Tom. Always treat others the way you would want to be treated!
Hi Val – Thank you for stopping by my site, and also thank you for serving our country! So much of what you say is so true, and I know about it from my experience of living here. It’s sad to say, unfortunate, but true!
Seems to be so, dans!
hi don,
too bad you’re caught in the middle. you probably need a copy of the contract between the condo developer / management and the unit owner to see for yourself which party has to fix that leak. i’m sure the owner will not furnish you a copy, see if you can secure one from another resident who actually owns their unit.
responsibility over piping depends on whether it is incoming or outgoing flow, anything else with parts that are handled by unit residents during use are most likely for unit owners’ account ” )
cheers,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Don… and good luck with those leaky pipes! 😆
Hi Val – I was surprised by your post. Every country has its own history of bad things. America has a history of racism but they moved out from it already. Discrimination (against the poor) is part of our history, too… But, time changed, people changed… So, i hope that your experience with your wife relatives won’t make your outlook about our country(Philippines) something negative. They(your extended family) doesn’t represent the whole Philippines anyway, but they represent the crook politicians… 😀 For sure, you know most politicians here that they always want previleges against ordinary people. They(politcians) doesn’t want to make a queue and will bypass everybody, they want to get ahead of the traffic all the time, etc… But, i’ve got to admit, discrimination still exist but its not rampant… 🙂
hi ric,
you got the facts right on the sham naval battle, too bad the book review i reposted here threw you off when you & CGN are actually on the same page ” )
i’m sure you’ve forgiven other authors of books on historical events for minor literary turns of phrase that don’t resonate well with you, i’m sure you’ll do the same after reading the book itself ” )
cheers,
Hi John,
Since I first learned of what many jobs pay there in Ph, Funding is something I generally take into first consideration. Many times I really marvel at what Filipinos can do with so little as compared to what we have here in the USA, and for so many of them that I have met to have a good personality and a smile.
Since I will be moving to the Philippines full time soon I have a question. To fit in there do you have to continually bash Americans and their attitudes? That’s what I get from this article and the comments. If that is the case I need to practice so I will be able to fit in. And no Bob, I don’t think that was the purpose of this article 🙂
Bob, I am proud to be an American and I find this American bashing unpleasant. I know that perhaps the truth is hurting but it all works both ways. Americans do get charged more, Americans do expect to get what they pay for, etc…. What I am saying does not in my opinion justify rude behavior from anyone. Perhaps that white skin just sticks out more when there is a problem. You moved because people were not respectful of you and your privacy. I know you were not rude to anyone because I know thats not who you are. However the Filipinos you had the disagreement with may differ on that opinion as they paint that wide brush. Marlou rented a nice house with a great landlord. Marlou had neighbors though that were not considerate. She put up with a car parked right on her door step so she had to go sideways to get out of her home. These same neighbors had dogs and would wash and sweep the dog feces and urine right onto her patio. Marlou would never say a word as to not offend. When I got there I was polite but firm and it stopped. The neighbors hated me and I am sure painted me as the bad American. I tend to think other wise. I like everyone else do not condone bad behavior of anyone. I know Americans, Brits, Australians, etc.. are all lumped together with the bad eggs that are there for the sex and beer. But I know yourself, John Meilie, Paul Thompson, Dave Starr, other readers are good people and they are to the best of my knowledge Americans. A landlord that rents a home and refuses to repair what should be a basic function of the property is a bad landlord. Simple as that. If they don’t want to rent to Americans because we know that they should be held responsible then maybe thats a good thing. Sorry for the rant but at times it feels good to rant a little. Ron
bob,
well, I had a discussion with my american “kumpare” his wife is a filipina, he is telling his children that they are half pacific islander because their mom is a pacific islander, and I told him that he was wrong, I told him that Filipinos are not pacific islander and we didn’t come from the island of Polynesia, Micronesia or any part of the pacific island, I told him that he got confused with the Philippine’s location on the map, not because Philippine is located in the sea of pacific that doesn’t mean we are pacific islander, he won’t accept my reasoning as that will hurt his “he-knows-it-all-ego”, a few days later his daughter approached me just to tell me that his dad was wrong and I was right because she asked her teacher about it and she cleared it up for her.
Hi Don- Would you happen to know the average rent on a brand-new two-bedroom condo in a nice location in Quezon City? Thanks.
Hello Girlie Odi Morgan,
You know, when all I knew was America I had the same thinking (looking down on cultures not the same as here). But after meeting my wife and learning the culture of the Philippines and being there before and after we married I have fell in love with life there. What I love is the more simple life. Things have become very complicated in the U.S. Even to the point where government agencies are tell us how we should live and if it is not up to the standard here you are looked down upon. Even people who have look down upon us who don’t. Or they look at you with pity and say thats too bad. But I noticed in the Philippines wether you have or don’t have you are treated with respect. If you don’t have a big nice house that is alright. Now not all Americans are like that but it seems we are seeing that more and more here lately. When I was there I felt less stress than I do here. The fast pace is slowly killing me. I hope to one day have a simple life there. Less stress, happier life. It might not be a rich Wall street life but it will be a happy one. We also would rather have our son go to school there than here. Be very proud of your country. Yes, it has it’s problems but it is still a very beautiful and charming country. Hope to be there soon.
Absolutely amazing, dans… and we wonder why are kids aren’t learning anything!
This is a brand new condo, am the first tenant. Unfortunately, the pipes are behind the counters so they cant tell if its incoming/outcoming. Will need to remove the counters. so the mgmnt says its renovators problem and will only address it once counters are out. I dont have to pay, but its a major inconvenience to have to deal with. My only option is to cancel the lease, but I really dont want to have to move.
Hi Jim,
It is so true a person you do wrong to will tell 20 or more people where as the person you are good to might tell one person. It true in any culture negative news will travel much faster than positive news.
For me, teens is a problem. Twenties is a choice for the girl, and it is not up to me to interfere with what she chooses. I tend to agree with Cheryl, the age thing is not an issue among Filipinos, it is things like respect and courtesy.
Hi Dave,
I’m sure that that’s true of many. I notice in your site posts sometimes though, that you understand and speak more of the language than you give yourself credit for.
What I think is that many foreigners though, just “don’t get it” how important it can be and are not even interested in even trying.
I think that having the desire to learn, like you’ve expressed, will eventually lead you to a teacher and greater language skills. It’s never too late to try, Right?
Hi Jim – I don’t think it really has anything to do with raising rent. In the case of Feyma’s dealings, when she inquired with property owners, they specifically asked if the potential renter was American, and when she said yes… they said, sorry, we don’t want to rent to him. So, when you won’t rent to somebody… there isn’t much worry about increasing their rent, since they won’t be renting in the first place! 😆
I agree with your observation, Cheryl.
Bob, Cheryl
It’s not that I am against the older married to the younger I have friends who are in that situation but I’m just saying that it could be a reason that a Filipino might not want to enter into a business transaction such as renting with couple like this. These same people will have certain problems in the US.Just as someone commented earlier people don’t like to deal with situations that are different. We have to remember though that no matter how we try to fit into the Filipino community whether it’s to become proficient in the language, accept all the customs, or live there for 50 years we will always be seen as an American and have to accept that we won’t be 100% accepted as anything but. You just have to deal with the misconceptions and do what you can to prove that you aren’t going to be a problem.
Hi Bob, If the owner gives what is said,then should be no problem. In the Province,a week or more would mean no solution to the rent that is being paid. No landlord on-site or nearby,means no resolution to any problems that arrive! Just my 2 pesos worth!
Bob,
Lots of comments like usual. I have two perspectives, one as professional working in Manila, all of my colleagues appear to be kind and considerate to the Philippino people. Probably because we work with them on a professional level and are treated as equals.
On the other hand, I ride with a motorcycle group, made up of mostly Aussies, Americans, Canadians and Europeans (as well as Philippinos). The difference between the Aussies and Americans is huge, much more overt racism from the Aussies. But the average Philippino likely assumes all are Americans.
Also, not to streotype to grossly, but I meet a lot of Americans who move to the Phil because they can barely get by in the US and lack education and come to Phils because the beer is cheaper and women dont look down on them. The educated person typcally has income/retirement funds and does not have that great of need to come all the way to Phils – Florida and Arizona are easier. Anyway, my 2 cents.
Lastly, my condo has a leaky pipe and already the condo management and owner are claiming its the other responsibility. I have a 12 page lease contract that defines responsibility, but once you pay 12 months in advance, little you can do. Complaining is the only recourse.
Hi Bob – You know, over the years I have seen things done in a totally different way, and at first I often though “wow, that’s stupid the way they do that.” After I learned more, often I discovered that they did it for a good reason, and is actually a rather intelligent adaptation that was not stupid at all.
Hi Dave – A lot of true words there, and words that echo my thoughts too. I just don’t have any desire to go back to the States, and much of what you say is included in the reasons why. Myself.. I’m pretty happy here. Yeah, it’s not perfect, but it’s pretty darn good, IMHO. I certainly don’t think that every Filipino I see on the street is out to get me, in fact, I find most of them to be pretty darn friendly.
Bob New York,
Nice post! I agree with you.
Most of the techniques here have been developed to accomplish tasks without spending a lot of money.
Of course things can be done faster or better… but only if the funds are available.
I have a friend who is convinced he is going to teach locals how to fish more efficiently. He will probably feel a great sense of accomplishment as long as he continues to hand out free rods and tackle!
John in Dipolog
A colleague once asked if the Philippines were in the Caribbean. I would pardon him if he was NOT Hispanic…Hahaha
There’s plenty of Booze in Saudi Loren, it’s just that it’s underground; not that I touched any myself of course. 😉
Tony,
Amen to that.
Are Americans really complainers? Let’s see if this is true here in the list of Americans most frequent complains and perhaps some possible solution to it:
They complain about the roosters crow – but they live in the province where roosters are everywhere. If they choose to live in Manila there won’t be many roosters.
They complain about too much heat – but they choose to live or stay in a tropical country. Perhaps they could live in Baguio City where temperature is cooler.
They complain about their asawa’s relatives asking money – but they are married to a poor asawa. They weren’t poking knife on you asking for money, they were just trying asking/begging for help and can just simply decline if don’t want to give any.
They complain about facilities in the airport – but they seem to forget that this is a third world country. Maybe when time the country reach tiger economy status things may change for the better.
They complain about karaokes – but they lived in rural areas where karaoke is all around. If they would rent a house in a private subdivision there won’t be Karaokes noise because homeowners association would not allow it.
They complain about tricycles noise – but they live in the province where tricycle is the primary mode of transportation, specially in remote areas. In Makati City areas taxi cabs produce less noise.
They complain about not many traffic signs and warnings – but they live in boondocks and far flung areas where municipal budget can be used to other projects more beneficial to the masses.
These are just few of many complains of foreigners here. Perhaps others can supply some more to this list.
Now the question, are Americans really complainers? Well, I don’t know, I guess it’s for you to judge…
Note: this not intended to offend, the list is written tonque-in-cheek.
Personally, I believe that Americans are the most generous people in the world. If there is a disaster, Americans will pull whatever money they have from their pockets and send it. I also do not believe that most Americans look down on others.
I agree with you cheryl.
Hahaha, Biz, my main man, you don’t give up do you? OK, I’ll order a copy to see what she had to say about the “sham naval battle” 🙂
Hey, Mars, where are you? I was at the Kababayan in Woodbridge this afternoon between 3 and 4PM (Sunday). I stopped by to eat on my way home to Delaware from Alexandria. I had the special plus one other dish. Rice, pinakbet, nilagang baka and gisadong monggo. Yummy. I asked every guy who walked in if his name was Mars. I thought they needed more staff, or another cashier at least, because the line was a bit long. Food is OK, but the grocery portion of the store is pathetic though, they have more groceries over at Manila Oriental on Bailey’s crossroad.
Hi Matt – I’m glad that you were able to find a person to help with your needs! That’s great news.
Cheryl,
Your right. This “looking down” on others characteristic is part of the human condition and afflicts all cultures and races…
John in Dipolog
Sorry, I just don’t see it. Every Filipino I met in the Philippines has become a friend, and every westerner I met has always shown to be decent and respectful to Filipinos.
You’re hanging out with the wrong crowd, or is it perception?
I love the roosters, hell, I live next to a fighting cock farm! They may crow in the morning, but I don’t have to get up, so let them crow.
I was kinda ticked when I purchased our home in Dinalupihan, and found the previous owners took the air conditioners out of the bedrooms, and the center counter from the kitchen, but they can be replaced, no big deal.
I always hear stories about costs. One cost for Filipinos and another for Kanos. Well, I haven’t seen that either.
Let me ask ya’l something. If you should see me walking down the dtreet with my 17 year old niece, would you consider me a dirty old man, before you even knew me? Perception my friends is just another name for racism.
Just sayin….
Even if I saw you walking down the road with your 17 year old girlfriend, patting her bum and nuzzling her neck, I’d not call you a dirty old man. I’d call both of you lucky; you for obvious reasons, and her because she won’t have to wait too long to inherit.
I’ve noticed that some have feared me when I first came. It felt awkward, and kind of hurt. Since then I tried to make it clear that I am nice. It’s shocked some, because sometimes I go as far as to even live under their own standard. I’mm the I-don’t-care laid back type with most things. I do notice some of my American friends here complain about things not worth complaining about. I end up in my mind complaining about their attitude. lol
Papa Duck
Thanks thats a couple times you had my back.
I am sure you can not blame the Fillipino rooster for make a little noise…it could be he is only wanting a cute fluffy Fillipino chicken to cuddle to on those long Fillipino nites there! Or, it could be that he is just letting every one know how happy he is that he has many fluffy Fillipino chicken girl friends and wants every body to know about it. Talking about Fillipino chickens, I saw one on the net one time and they sure look different than the chickens here in the USA and sure looked like they would taste nice all fried up Fillipino style….So, I quess if one chooses to live there, they be better off if they could look for the fun or postive side of the things they say they do not like and sure their lives there would be happier……
Ric,
HaHaHa! I like that one. Take care.
Perhaps, the increase of foreigners retiring in The Philippines has overwhelmed many Filipinos, as well, Bob?
When it comes to a safety-related issue, personally, I will speak up, regardless of whether someone will be embarrassed and/or annoyed, or not. If I rent accommodations to someone, I have to know that it won’t fall down on them in a quake, that they won’t receive an electric shock from poor wiring, etc., nor would I live in such a place.
If I rent a place to an American & he’s a pain, I’ll move him along but wouldn’t hesitate to rent to another. Same goes for all nationalities. To not do so would be prejudice. I do wonder if the unwillingness of some to rent to Americans is because of rental-related complaints, alone.
The dramatic increase in foreign retirees has sparked anti-foreigner sentiments in some folk. I worry about our development in that it will alter the public beach access. Although the Barangay Captain is very supportive of our plans, I fully expect a neighbour or two to be less than enthused.
On a lighter side;
As my boat is licensed in California, I fly the Stars & Stripes on my stern. So, when locals see the boat at the dock they’ll think I’m American! (LOL)
Frankly I didnt see any anti-American sentiment in my visits to the Philippines, especially the same kind I see in other Korea, Japan, China, etc.
As a Canadian most Asians assume I am American, and yes, we are treated very differently when they find out we are Canadians. It is amazing how much better we are received in some countries after they realize we are Canadians.Even our Auzzie frieds react differently. It is strange, because their is very little difference. Both are big countries with many different regional attitudes, but our values are very similar.
When I worked in the tourist industry most customers were Americans, and after a few monthsI knew how to adjust my approach based on the license plate. People from the southern states were so cordial and polite, relaxed, we always gave them the best rooms. They were similar to Canadian Maritimers. Other states were more like Ontario residents, in a hurry, more abrupt, demanding, impatient. Here-in lies a difference, in Asia, they assume we are all the same.
I was amazed at the resentment towards Americans in Korea, where the security and the economy exist because of Americans.
Koreans base their opinions on the conduct of the US military, so you have a very refined well educated culture in Seoul, and military base encompassed by the military. God bless the military, but they didnt achieve world dominance using social etiquette. I once interceded on the streets in Seoul because a large loud Marine was physically abusing a small Korean over a parking dispute. When I challenged the marine to push me, pushed him back, and stared him down, the surrounding crowd cheered for me. As far as they knew I was American. Maybe the marine even thought I was American, who knows, but no doubt everyone who witnessed the incident formed an opinion. However, they will not appreciate that marine for providing security, only they will recall his behavior.
So, whenever we are abroad, we all represent our race more than our country, but still we also largely represent our country. Maybe it is an obnoxious tourist in China, a marine in Korea, or a wining retiree in Davao, locals will all form or reformulate their opinion based on their contact with us.
So folks, represent your country and race well. If you cant, stay home.
All, if you see anti-American sentiment now, just wait until “Amigo” comes out next month!
http://www.onlinemovieshut.com/online-movies/amigo-movie-2010
I can’t help but be amused by this topic. While some Americans might be overly vocal at times, most of us were taught to value other human beings, even those we disagree with.
There’s an immense divide between the wealthy and the poor in third world countries like the Philippines. The poor are treated almost like cattle while the rich and powerful get away with proverbial, and in some cases, actual murder. Rich filipinos regularly treat their poorer brothers and sister far worse than even the most depraved Americans.
The national media sport is to point a finger at the strange looking foreigners and try and hang them in effigay whenever possible so the public won’t examine too closely what their own politicaians are doing to them.
Good day,
I have been reading all the post and I must be missing something. Let me explain….My husband has a great desire to move to the Phillipines, the weather, nature, people, he has chattted with, a nice retired life in a good place.
I have been reading , researching and getting quite a panic going, because when I enter a new country, I want to be the most well mannered representative of myself, my family and my nation. I have been setting my standard of learning up a notch to be ready for this new life.
Than I read how some americans are giving a bad light to of nation.
I am also a little scared because I am a black woman married to a white man. I have had enough of the race card in my life… and would like to retire in positive peace.
Any thoughts, words of wisdom or knowledge greatly appreciated.
Be blessed,
Mama Jaye’
Hi Jovencio – Thank you for your kind words. I”m glad that you appreciate my site! I’ve got a lot of work into the site, and it is a good feeling when somebody likes it!
The guy with the barking dog is the bad neighbour my friend, no question there Jovencio. Our dog goes to sleep at night, and only barks if there is a burglar or a prowler. If he barked for no reason, I’d just tape up his mouth with duck tape until he learned not to, coz I’m a lot closer to it and it would annoy me before it annoyed a neighbour. Doesn’t it annoy you?
Hi David J – I wish you all the best on your coming move! I hope everything goes smoothly, and that you have a great life in the Philippines!
David J
Now that is painting every American with the same paintbrush, so let me have a whack at the Paintbrush!!
I you feel so anti American why don’t you give up your US Citizenship and any benefits associated with it, I bet you wont!
If China invades the RP when you are living there I bet you would be running for the US Embassy.
hi bob,
recently, my friend’s daughter arrived in the US and entered a public high school to continue her education, in her “US History” class, the Philippine matters came up a little bit, the high school teacher told the entire class that until now the Philippines is OWNED by the US., if her story is true, well.. it would not surprise me if lots of Americans in the Philippine acted as if they own the country.
Well, I am American and beginning to agree. Three weeks ago I was in Tagaytay and met a European expat, we hit it off well, nice guy. He told me that there are about sixty expats in that area and there are actually only twelve he would hang out with, most just complain. Who wants to be around downer people! BTW, new to this site, looking good, thanks!
I love the roosters!
hi ric,
you’d be surprised– i know successful entrepreneurs back in my hometown whose resourcefulness & creativity keeps them breaking new ground, despite not having experienced poverty their whole lives.
IMO people are just born with that trait. resourcefulness is class-agnostic ” )
cheers,
Poverty is the main reason why Filipinos become extremely resourceful.
Bernie,
Nowhere in the article said Americans need to apologize for being American. Sure Americans have given their lives for the people of the Philippines and the Filipino people are grateful for this. To be honest the Philippines was still under the protection of the U.S. when the war started. So the Filipino people owes Americans nothing for it was our duty to protect them.
I agree with Bob your attitude is a great example of what the article was all about.
But, to be fair, the US also took Philippine independence away after the Philippine-American War some 50 years earlier. I have always been very pleased by my reception in the Philippines.
Just one funny example of how Americans are treated. I was traveling in Crete with a girl from Galveston Texas. She had to go to the bank, so there she was in line with her American Passport in hand, at least six locals cut in front of her in the line, it took more than a half an hour to get her money. Three days later we’re back at the same bank, only this time she is wearing my jacket with a large Canadian flag on the back, not only did the previous experience not repeat itself, but people stepped out of the line so she would be the next customer to the teller. Neither of us could believe the difference in the two situations.
hi bernie,
i highly recommend the book, ‘heroes & villains’ by carmen guerrero nakpil, where you can review the circumstances behind the sham naval battle between spanish & american forces, and the extent of control the philippine revolutionary forces had all over the archipelago before the US “bought” the country from spain.
cheers,
speaking japanese would be good
Exactly, Scott.
Don’t look any further, the ‘poor quality’ of expats in general is the greatest problem.
The lower the quality, the more problems. Unfortunately, Philippines is paradise for international social misfits.
When was it that an expat who is married, has decent income, is mentally sane with good education and good manners, had problems here?
Bob, My Goodness as an American with family in Davao i have had no idea Americans in particular were viewed in such a negetive light in the Phil. Seems that lots of people responding here are anti-American. I know beyond doubt that i could go to any Filipino thats renting out there home, condo and in just a conversation come away with a lease or rental agreement. The “Ugly American” attitude which is valid can very easily be overcome with a smile, sincere speech, and just a plain ol good attitude with a smile. Try it folks, it actually works for a reformed “Ugly American”.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences, Jawz.
It’s one thing for a non-American to be anti-American – I chalk it off to jealousy, but for an American to be so anti-American?
Neal and Papa Duck, there’s a Pinoy proverb that likens a Filipino who does not love the national language to a stinky fish.
Regarding your reply to Anthony, Bob you have highlighted a point my Pinoy chums appreciate.
Quote “I could overcome the negative perception, just with how we present ourselves and interact.” Unquote.
We’re not American, but I’m assumed to be one it seems.
Shortly after moving to Davao Oriental, I noticed that when I replied to locals who shouted “hey Joe” to me, and I responded in local language with a ‘time of day’ reply, their attitude changed from ‘mickey taking’ to a more respectful follow up.
I do not claim to be fluent in Cebuano, or Tagalog, or any language, but in 40 something years of travelling, I have always had a better interaction with locals when using their language, and behaving in a respectful manner (normal for us).
The number of times my wife and I have been disgusted/ashamed, by the behaviour of people from our country when overseas, are many.
Kind regards James
Those landlords/builders/architects may just be following the lead of our Vice Mayor, who was quoted in yesterday’s press (Aug, 16) as saying, “I have never been enamored with foreigners.”
Bob, I am a African American that has wife and kids in Davao for a bit longer than you. I have never heard the N word ever. I am in the Talisay and all over Davao. I am also a light skinned brother who people have no idea that i am black which would lead you to think that at some point throughout the years i would have heard that word. Please if you hear that word again please inform the offending party that we all bleed the same color and that black is as beautiful as any other race of people.
Hi Bob .. (good post).. cool ok guys?
OK listen up you guys from uk or usa .. others places… peace now!!
Bob said … Simple … if you want to live in a 20,000,000 Php house (Big house).. rent it, (it saves you hard cash over 15- 25y) or just buy a 2-3,000,000 Php house or less and enjoy it, Just keep your cash in the bank oversea’s enjoy it also, but if you can find a 10-20,000 Php per month well done all… rent this, look around?
For me and my Phili.. wife we are buying up homes in philippines to rent out?, sell maybe in long term? re-invest?, build appartments to rent, investing in our family in uk and philippines, trust/love you family thats the only way a head in philippines, the only way a head. (if you can).
Guys remember its yours or you phili wife either way (so, if you trust/love her put it in her name, ask her to run it, she invest in your kindness, phili family will be proud of you).. easyest way ahead my friends, thats why you retired to philippines to have wonderful, peaceful life.. YES!!
By the way.. To date we own (but for Php small loans on them?) and we rent out 3 – houses in CDO … at total of just 40,000 Php /month moving up to 60,000 Php in few years time, which will cover all cost/loans per year, our goal/target? we Paid house priced on 3 bed homes @ 1.5 > 2.1,000,000 Php 2010/11. and other land but much less in 2006?
Just be wise and be smart… live happy life in your retierment, mine 15y to go still or if BOBs books help one day, it will be quicker, god willing… cary on good work, well done all? .. 100% MindanaoBOB!!
Every one has thier own ways or plan in life, on age limit or plan in philippines, so just go with it all if you can.
Just live the dream for all, help all, have peace for all, every day, give a smile to all.
Kind Regards .. Pj
Hi Doug – Since you are not married to a Filipino, you cannot buy property here anyway (except a condo), so renting is going to be the way to go for you. If you want to visit Davao, there are many hotels where you can stay. First step would be to decide what your budget is for the hotel, and then choose. For a high end budget, you might try Marco Polo Hotel. For a lower end budget maybe “My Hotel” (that’s the name of the hotel, it’s not mine!) or We R Inn. Of course, there are dozens of choices in the middle.
I don’t really understand what you are getting at, Jim. I mean, you need to plan for health problems whether you own or rent, I don’t see any connection. As far as a “fixed pension” – I don’t live on a fixed pension, so it is not something I worry about. My businesses will run whether I am sick or healthy, dead or alive. I sure hope I am healthy and around to keep the businesses up and running, but if I am not, people are in place who will keep things running.
I’ll take a look at that, Ian… thanks for sharing it.
Hi Ian- Your comment made me think. If no one built a house there would be none to rent then what?
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Peterjoy – Nice to hear from you, you’ve been quiet lately! Great news that you recently purchased a house! I’m happy for you.
Hi Paul – For me, “settling” and owning a home are two different things. I would say that I settled here about 10 years ago! If you are asking when will I buy or build a house that I own, the answer may be anywhere between 6 years from now (when my youngest finishes school and we decide where we will call home permanently) and possibly never! I am very comfortable with renting.
I agree with you Greg, buying your own home is the American dream. Renting is not what most Americans would like to do. But, as we both know… things are not the same in the Philippines! 😆
Hi Susan – Wow! I congratulate you on the coming move to the Philippines, be it permanent or temporary. I hope that your husband finds it a lovely place to stay! If you make it to Davao, we’d love to meet you.
Hi Greg k – I was basing my reply on the replys from this particular discussion only.
Regards.
Jim.
I read your post with great interest. I also lean towards being a renter, for some of the reasons you already stated. One subject I haven’t seen come up is political stabality. If the government topples & there is martial law again, the foreigners might be sent packing, & those that own would be the biggest losers. Hope that doesn’t happen though, just food for thought. Keep up the interesting posts, Dan
True, as a group, we kanos tend to be fairly outspoken. I’ve also noticed during my trips to the Phils that there are many kanos and other Western men who spend most of their time boozing and whoring with very young women. Their ilk seem to be over represented in the Philippines. For the locals lacking a broader perspective on expats, it would make sense if they painted us all with the same brush and chose not to deal with any of us.
In my personal opinion, travelling before 2001 was pleasurable and Americans were still being treated fairly well all over the world. After Bush took office and began the invasion of Iraq and the War on Terrorism, it has been downhill with a hard landing – and fast! The way I see it, however, is that it is all our fault – and for many reasons. Many people of the world don’t appreciate our use of wars as an economic engine – many countries don’t appreciate our position in global affairs and our willingness to meddle where we see right or benefit, and many countries don’t appreciate our influence over trade nor do they appreciate the rules enforced by the very institutions we assisted creating. Those once poor countries, however, have grown up and have utilized those very institutions against us, since we aren’t perfect and sometimes we forget to lead by example, and that’s where the bad reputation begins since we have lost our very own voice and authority = and it’s a proven fact that people hate and resent being told what to do by someone who is doing what they are saying shouldn’t be done! Then again, many people have also envied the fact that as a melting pot of people, Americans are very proud and outspoken and will speak their mind – regardless of who they are – whether a waitress, a janitor, a secretary, CEO, lawyer or doctor. Americans having ties to every corner of the world from Nigeria, China, Jamaica, Cuba, Argentina, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Russia – wherever they had been from and from whatever socioeconomic class, in America – people speak up and speak their mind. Things today are changing, however, where more countries begin looking the way America did, and America increasingly looks like the other countries of the world – and in many ways – not just by eyesight.
Another good explanation without blaming Americans but still blaming them, was being a sole superpower (which is really not much of a problem anymore, but helped in tarnishing our reputation) was the fact that as a sole superpower and while we were getting there, we really should have been paying more attention to what was happening here at home and strengthening our systems here within the government, our economy and education, as well as strengthen our defense – including cyberspace, so that we would be able to bestow this status on generations to come. And part of that would have been to carefully strategize who we assist and how we assist them, how we would globalize and under what terms, to prevent a loss of technology and intellectual property that could easily be copied and used in competition. And the regulatory authorities should have never allowed for the credit bubble
Bob,
Below is a portion of an email chat/conversation I had with a Local professor at the University Of Manila that kinda dovetails with the Rent or Buy question. We were originally discussing what do highly educated and traveled Filipinos think about ex-pats in general. I am only excerpting the portion that runs parallel with this thread? READ ON
The bigger problem for foreigners is the land ownership provision in the Constitution, which prohibits foreign companies and individuals from owning land.
It’s a protectionist law that supports the local oligarchy or “families” – the same “families” that supported the 1987 Constitution in the first place.
It made sure that foreign entities may never come in to challenge the local oligarchs on equal footing, and thus bring in quality management, practices and services that may put local businesses to shame.
Keeping foreigners out of the property arena and the REAL business arena, has kept the Philippines a feudal society, full of inequality and corruption. Our best and brightest minds almost always leave the Philippines or in fact become part of the existing problems. if I were you I would not try to own anything in the Philippines, there are many alternatives that serve the same purpose with less problems in the end.
Aussie Pete here. I rented in Pasig (Manila) near work for a few months but in this area for nice unit around 17,000 – 20,000 peso a month is standard for furnished studio. Bought new condo unit for 1.4 mill furnished small studio (under market price)- works out cheaper to buy as reverse yield on what I save is very high – and put own stuff in which is nice.
I should have noted the 17,000 – 20,000 is for high quality studio in new or near new complex with security pools, gym and all the fruit.
Hi Bob, just wanted to say what a excellent site for getting info on the philippines, especially on the subject of renting versus buying, i totally agree with you on renting, mainly what happens if your marriage breaks down, and it is not a good separation, i have heard of aussies where this has happened and the end result was they had to walk away and lose everything, sad but true.
As for myself i have been coming to phil for the last 2 years, but only only on short visits, as i had to get everything organized in australia, so i can come to phil in june this year, as i will be staying there for quite a while, i already decided that i won’t buy house there, but instead agreed to build a room on to my girlfriends parents house, and if it did not work out then i haven’t lost much, as the old saying goes ‘ you don’t know what the person is like till you live with them’,
But everytime i come to phil, i always stay at a hotel and they give me very good monthly rates when i stay there, which is in Ormoc city.
But the information on this website has been very valuable to me, especially with this ACR card they have now.
Thanks again ..
I have seen for myself in Iligan, A Americano acting like Idiot in Gaisano because service was slow my friend from Australia tried to calm him and almost got his head chewed off. There has been other incident’s where I just think to myself “man what are you doing here? if you want it like home, GO HOME” When in Rome…….
Thank you James. I agree, if you can respond to people, or interact with people in the local language, you will always get the best treatment possible! That’s been my experience.
Ha ha.. I’m glad you are amused by it, David… better to laugh than cry, no doubt.
No Bob and I wouldn’t accuse you of such a thing. But just like any good journalist or teacher you can throw something out there and let it get a life of it’s own.
OK, Realist, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Since this post was last year’s, I ‘d better write my comment here. Most Americans think they can extend their rights and privileges here in a poor country. They forget , it’s a different life here—different laws, customs, lifestyle and expectations, so they complain and demand that their rights and complaints be addressed. That of course, leads to animosity because most people in the Philippines are not able to respond to that properly because of their different expectations and orientation. Some Americans complain too much about this country forgetting that this country’s own problems itself are hard and impossible for them to solve. If they complain about the gutter and flooded streets, how would Filipinos address this when even the government and the specific group could not even resolve these? When my husband came here for the 1st time, I had to orient him frequently—again and again about what to expect and what not to expect from the Philippines and the Filipinos.” The Philippines is entirely different from anything you’d been used to in the US” I told him. HOwever, I have an American friend whose wife is a Filipino who failed to orient the American, came to the Philippines and spent the whole time complaining and griping that their vacation was wrecked instead of being enjoyed.
I told my husband, “When in Rome, do as the Romans do, so when you’re in the Philippines, do as the Filipinos do. Deal with it.”
Nothing new on that one, though.. I wrote like 7 or 8 years ago that Mayor (at that time) Duterte was not too foreigner-friendly. I still like the guy, though! 😉
Hi Anthony – The use of the N word has decreased a lot in the 11 years that I have lived here. I used to hear it nearly every day, but in recent years not as much. I am happy about that!
Hi Mike – You might want to switch that flag! Ha ha… Maybe the Canadian flag, since that is where you are from, would be more welcomed! 😆
Hi Jim – That was tried, but the answer was a flat NO. Money is not the issue, they just don’t want to deal with Americans.
Same here, Scott.
It’s the experiment of adventurism and political push for colonialism, thanks for an improper storage of ammos in the hold of USS Maine, or is it really sabotage?
Bernie, this history links might enlightened you. Some arrogance were shown then, but overall, both countries or all countries have some arrogance attitude against other people.
http://philippineamericanwar.webs.com/background.htm
“The spirit of imperialism growing in the United States—fueled by supporters of Manifest Destiny—led many Americans to believe that the United States needed to take aggressive steps, both economically and militarily, to establish itself as a true world power.”
We shall see, Loren. I personally feel that Americans are in for some pretty harsh economic times in the coming years.
Hi Larry – Not hard to see those kind of things here. 🙂
Hi Vivienne – You’re always welcome to comment here or on the Magazine site. Both are equally welcome. You are right in what you say, I totally agree.
I think your analysis is pretty spot on, Steve. We kanos as a group, are judged by the action of the worst of us.
I think you hit the nail on the head at the start.. we, individually, need to conduct ourselves in such a way that we leave a trail of Filipinos saying, “Hey.. I guess not ALL Americans are total jerks.. that one was very respectful and reasonable.”
There’s no fixing someone who’s spent most of their life as an a-hole on two continents. I did just read an article though of an American being deported for being abusive to his live-in girlfriend. Serves him right, no matter what country he’s in, needs to learn some respect for people. Might serve as a warning to others that it is possible to get tossed out of ‘paradise’ for good. 🙂
Hi Bob,
I live in the UK and I have my own home.
I will be visiting the Philippines for a holiday in May 2013. My long term plan is to retire in the Philippines, should I like what I see ( I know its not going to be one but several holidays.) I originally wanted to sell my home, and buy an apartment in the Philippines. I realised that I need a plan ‘B’. What would happen if I got homesick, or I became sick long term, I would have burnt my bridges.
So I’ve decided that if I do eventually retire to the Philippines I can rent out my house, for which currently I would get £700 to £750 per month, and use that or part of that rent income, to rent out a home in the Philippines. I then would have my occupational pension to live on, and when I and if I reach 66 I then also get my UK state pension, so should things go TITS UP then I will have a home to return to.
I am currently 55 and now eligible for my works pension but pension is greatly reduced, so realistically I would need to be 60 to 62, which gives me more service and less reduction.
Davao is my number 1 target, bit concerned that you are not too happy there.
Hi Jim,
my one great concern is a serious health problem, as you know in the UK we have free health care, and its a wonderful service, that is much loved and treasured in the UK.
I realise that this is something that I have to factor in if I move to the Philippines, and hopefully Bob may one day post some info on this subject.
By not buying and renting, it gives me much more flexibility and freedom.
My g/f has the opposite problem.. she rents out some of her units and, while the rent is stated in the lease, the renters only pay 1/10th of it. She says the eviction process is incredibly slow and always leans to the renters.
But regarding when we are the renters.. if the notarized copy of the lease still doesn’t show up after 3 months, what about holding back the rent until it does? My suspicion is that the landlord kept the money that was intended for the notarization and never got them notarized in the first place. Seems like people move a little faster when it hits their pocketbook.
I’ll never buy a house here. I never owned one in the United States, preferring to get up and leave when I please. I wonder if some of that disposition is “passed along” genetically, because I have a few family members who do the same thing (including an 80-year old aunt who has yet to “settle down”).
I may buy a house at a later date, once I settle down in a location permanently. For now, though, I want to be more mobile.
I just saw this article, I know it’s a 2-year old article but I wanted to comment.
After 10 years living and renting in Davao, do you have any regrets not buying a house? Because I just calculated conservatively, if you were paying rent at P35,000 (which in this article you were paying P38,000 per month) after 10 years you would have paid way over 4 million pesos. I consider all your reasons for renting, kids in school, Davao is not where you plan to live long term (10 years is long for me) bad neighbors, hard to sell, etc. But if you own your house and move away, you can rent it out. With your online presence and contacts, I don’t think you’ll have any problems renting it out to another expat.
Hi Gerry – Like you are planing I also have a foot in both camps with a house in Mindanao and an apartment in the UK. You never know what the future holds be it family or healthwise. Work as long as you can for the sake of a decent pension but also make sure you are young enough still to enjoy your retirement.
All the best with your plans.
Regards.
Jim.
Thank you so much for your kind words, Mel, I appreciate it very much. There are pitfalls to buying, in my opinion. One of them is the marriage/relationship thing like you mentioned. In my case, that is not a big consideration, as I’ve been married nearly 22 years, and have absolute trust in my wife. However, there are other considerations too. I think it is very wise to rent, at least for a while at first.
Thank you again, Mel, and keep visiting the site! We look forward to hearing from you often!
I am in full agreement on that, Joe. I could care less about owning land here, it’s just not really on my agenda. I’m really very happy renting my home.
Thanks Pj, and good luck with your houses in CdO!
High Bob great article, have done both of these owned a house or the bank owned some of it and rented and both have their merits. The most important thing to me is happiness and whether you live in a million dollar mansion or
a humble house or a tent if you are happy then how does the saying go ” A house is a man’s castle ” what about rates over there do they have rates because that always adds to the expense of owining compared to renting. This is to MEL, I was wondering if you could give me your email address if that is okay, when I read your article I noticed that you mentioned Ormoc. I have a girlfriend that lives there in Ormoc City Leyte and I will be heading over in about 6 weeks time my brother is in Cebu with his family and he likes it there, different to Australia no doubt but it sounds very exciting. Bob and his wife Feyma have a wonderful site here and have most helpful in any enquiries that I have, take care
Philip
It’s always good to have a “Plan B” Gerry, no doubt. Hopefully Plan A will work out… but just in case!
I get the point with the 5% interest scenario. However, that is assuming you can getc 5%. Did you also factor in the relative change in PHP relative to the dollar over the last ten years? If you can get 5% interest on an investment relative to PHP then it makes sense. However, considering the 20+% decrease in USD vs PHP over the past 15 years, plus most fixed USA investment options offering 0.1-1.5% interest, the house purchase and corresponding options might be a better return on investment.
Great artical John, points out the good and the bad. Plus it’s great that Bob put yours and Paul’s artical back to back because it shows two sides of the story. This is one topic that is to each there own, and is different for everyone. You, me and everyone could give a reason for renting or buying but will never be the same for another person.
My asawa and I choose to rent at this time but will be buying later, as in 2 or more years, but renting is the bust for us at this time. The thing is that may change as well and we may never buy, who knows.
Thanks for the artical and letting people know what it is truly like here and not painting a picture that is not there. This is one thing I love about the people the write on this site, the truth as you see it and letting everyone no that it will not be the same for them.
Again thanks.
Bill: It was coincidence that Paul’s article and mine appeared together… But it does give both perspectives.
Axel: There are many ways to provide security… If you want to be in the same place for 20 years, owning may make more financial sense. Again, personal comfort level. If you buy, knowing the law and risks, and are comfortable with that risk, who am I to tell you that you are wrong?
😉
amen sister…lol
August: You would not be speaking for Rebecca… See my note.
Hello John;
When the housing market crapped the bed in the United States, my brothers asked me how much money I lost on my house. I explained that there is no way I could lose, as it will never be for sale, and nothing was ever owed on it as it was built with my cash. This house will remain in the family, being passed down from one generation to the next. I never once thought about resale value, as I know this is the last place I’ll ever live. Many friends who rented until they passed away have left their families now living in dire circumstances, as they (The family)could no longer afford the high rent that their husband could, and are forced to move to a much much lower standard of living.
If one is just passing through the Philippines with no intention of staying, then by all means rent. We each have our reasons for the way we live, and no one’s reason is better or worst that the others persons reason, we do what is best for ourselves and our families. And if renting is the best than well and good, but for me it was not, and I speak from having rented for a long time and now having owned for a long time. To each his own and what is good for you, is the best way.
Hi John!
Great article and likely a great service to those western expats who are choosing to relocate here. I reside in Butuan City, am 55yrs old and happily married to my bride 10yrs my junior. If nothing else is retained by your readers, your statement that newly relocated folk ought to experience life here prior to making large investments is prescient and cannot be emphasized enough.
Based on my experience, I offer an entirely different viewpoint regarding your premise; here’s why.
Firstly, different climes have different standards as we know. Here in Butuan, I always suggest visiting a prospective domicile during rainy season when sewers/septic systems tend to clog and result in stagnate water for weeks on end.
That said, I disagree about your presentation of ‘ownership’. While you are correct about PI law ‘reads’ relative to foreign ownership, there are plentiful options for foreign investors to protect their investment. Many of these options require attorney assists, but they do exist. That many foreign corporations invest here with adequate ownership is testament to this fact. The real question is ‘transfer’ of ownership should one desire. While the concept of houseboats, container/modular homes and RV type dwellings is in its infancy in PI, nonetheless they are entirely valid, transferable and easily protected by law and practicality.
Rents are not appreciable lower than house payments. In Butuan there are over 50 banks and the more aggressive institutions are beginning to offer mortgage products that are approaching international standards. Equity loans at BDO for example allow 80% loan to value loans at increasingly attractive rates relative to the Peso value. PagIbig offers numerous purchase options for its properties. Demonstrable foreign based income is a decided asset, not a detriment in the acquisition of financing.
We all know that everyone’s economic/personal situation is different. I have witnessed a plethora of expats who contend that renting is better than buying in part because they state that they want their wife to ‘get the cash’ if they die, rather than providing the security of ownership that ‘most’ filipinas have never experienced. What a crock;I have never seen this happen. The surviving spouse is usually left effectively destitute after years of comfort with her foreign spouse. A very unfortunate position to be thrust in. Few Filipinas have the requisite skill set to deal with medical, financial and insurance issues, let alone at a time of high emotion. Some would contend that part of the implicit marriage contract anywhere in the world is for the hubby to provide a home; perhaps this concept is more pronounced in view of the prevailing economic condition in PI and with most asawa families.
Providing a home is a HUGE emotional and financial condition for those fortunate enough to be capable of doing so, and demonstrates commitment and solidity. A good case can be made that many gents that ‘qualify’ renting vs. buying are substituting their true implicit responsibilities because the economic disparity allows them to do so. Women are treated very poorly, (in the legal arena), in PI compared to western countries, and many expats perpetuate this concept.
I certainly respect your position and as said, everyone’s situation is different. I contend that;
-home ownership options are available for foreigners,
-attractive financing packages are available,
-home ownership is often the smartest choice,
-the real estate market is vibrant in certain sectors,
-many sellers are willing to act as mortgagor offering attractive terms,
-home equity is ‘unremoveable’,
-every improvement is for you, not the landlord,
-the barangay process of protecting homeowners from harmful conduct from others is extremely effective,
-home ownership is likely often the best ‘gift’ a husband can present to a wife.
Thank you,
Greg May
Quote from Paul Thompson “…as it will never be for sale, and nothing was ever owed on it as it was built with my cash. This house will remain in the family, being passed down from one generation to the next.”
This is the same philosophy I have, about wanting to own my own house. Also, if my my daughters decide to visit the Philippines, they have a place to stay without paying for a hotel room.
Miss August: I would say that it is more western oriented, though. Many of my business colleagues in a number of countries have no intention of ever buying anything.
Hi John _ I agree wholeheartedly with Paul’s reasoning behind buying and in my particular case had I rented a house here in CDO instead of building I would now be out of pocket. As it is by not renting I have recovered the cost of our house and minus building maintenance I’m a little ahead. Yes I agree, it’s horses for courses.
Regards.
Jim.
YOU ARE RIGHT MR. MIELE.I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WERE TREPEDITIOUS ABOUT BASHING THE BANKS INTEREST RATES IN THE P.I.,THE CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS AS WELL AS PRICES PER SQ. FT/MTR. COMPARED TO THE WESTERN PLACES I MENTIONED ABOVE,BUT I AM IN STITCHES OVER WHAT PLACES ARE GOING FOR HERE.IF ANYONE MORTHAHES A HOME IN THE PHILIPPINES AND IS NOT A RICH GUY,THE JOKE IS ON THEM.YOU ARE JUST WARNING THEM.I SEE A GUY UP ABOVE SAYING ATTRACTIVE APR’S ARE OFFERED,REALY?WHERE? NOT IN THE PHILIPPINES PAGIBIG IS THE CHEAPEST AT 11%,IF YOU ARE ACCEPTED.ON A 20 YR. NOTE,THE MORTGAGE AMOUNT MORE THAN QUADRUPLES.I EVEN SAW A PACE BUILT ON A SIXTY YR. OLD LAND-FILL,WHAT A SCAM. I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN A GOOD DEAL ON ANYTHING IN S.E. ASIA,AND THE P.I. IS NO EXCEPTION.SINGAPORE AND THEIR 10% SALES TAX ON FOREIGNERS BUYING A PLACE IS OUTRAGEOUS DISCRIMINATION,AND SOON TO COME TO THE PHILIPPINES.
Paul: Right you are… Those I know who were not hurt by the real estate crash were those who bought a house with the intent to stay there for a long time. Problem is that so many were using their equity as a piggy bank. Those are the folks who got burned. It is a deeply personal choice… I think that is why these articles generate so much emotion.
I think I will just keep on renting. I have been renting this apartment since 2009 and the rent has never gone up. I would NEVER live long enough to see house ownership become cheaper than rent.
One expat here in town built a 2,000 sq meter house. Yes, two thousand! I couldn’t afford the help to keep the place clean!!! If I wanted to live in my own home I would just move back to the States. All paid for but it is cheaper to live here than rent so I have caretakers living in the place. I am disabled so house upkeep is not easy.
It is more fun in the Philippines. Why try to bring my western ideas here?
I do not know who it is that thinks buying a house in the Philippines is a good idea,BUT FOR ME?NO WAY,the prices per square foot/meter are just OUTRAGEOUS and the APR’s ,if mortgaging,are 14%….HYSTERICAL,as in,OUTRAGEOUSLY FUNNY.The construction of the places,in most cases,is HORRIBLE,as in CRACKED WALLS,FOUNDATIONS.
I have rented on the beach here for 5 yrs. and saved enough $$$ to go back home and buy a place…CA$H.The opportuinities for making money to pay-off a mortgage in the Philippines do not exist so anyone who buys a place here and dies,loses the place as asawa can not pay the freight.RENTING,RENTING,RENTING IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO.
Hi John,
Although you have raised many points on both sides of the ownership issue, I have to agree with Greg May. As a practicing real estate broker for many years, I am familiar with market differences here and there (RP) and vibrant market conditions exist there if you know where to look. When you rent and then have to upkeep the unit, you will find the cost of rent PLUS is not all that reasonable and can be a money pit. Sure you can move, then you can move again…and again, and you can’t take any of the leasehold improvements with you. I do agree that building or buying should be approached from the same perspective as a long term investor, and looked at as a long term permanent investment. Due diligence should be the order of the day when buying or building and a substantial homework investment should be made. We have planned carefully and are certain that the home we are building will be our last home together. When I am gone, I know my wife will never be destitute. In my opinion, it’s part of good estate planning. She will have a good roof over her head and a family willing to take care of her. I owe her at least that much.
Like Paul says, “What is good for you is the best way.
good posting john
but unlike the most off u here i am buying a home in the php and i am happy to say like most men here in tassie i did dream off having a home off my own and with the thinks are going up and up here i did know i can never own one here at home so as 1 one day i will have to live there in manila we did start to look about for a home to buy there and have rented for some years we did find the home just for us it is about 2 hours out side off manila dow south up in the hills and it is just lovely for my wife joy and i and i also can say it is no longer a dream to me mate ok……..peter martin tassie
Good points about owning a home versus renting. What is lost in all of this is that you are forgetting you are a foreigner and will always be in a country in which you are not a citizen. As such, there is always a possibility – however remote – that you may have to pull up roots someday and return to your country of origin because of political turmoil or a failed relationship.
Jim: Everyone has their own comfort level… I assume that before building, though, that you had spent significant time in the area before making the decision, correct?
Although I have no intention of moving there at the present time, I have kept in mind many of the things I have read here on ” LIP ” about housing in The Philippines. The words ” Apartment ” and ” House ” may take on an entirely different meaning in Philippines.
An apartment that one of my Filipino friends was living in was not much more than an old hotel / motel that had been converted. If the place had ever had a fire it probably would burn down faster than the ” fire Dept ” could get there. In another instance, I looked at a new ” housing development ” . The so called houses looked very nice on the outside but nothing on the inside except 4 ” simulated ” concrete walls. If the same ” house ” were here in the USA it would never get a certificate of occupancy and it would probably be considered more like a fancy garden shed. Those houses lasted for about a year and then were washed away last December by tropical storm Sendong.
Here in the USA, I prefer to own my own house which I have done for the past 40 years or so but I realize and have seen some of those differences in housing here and in The Philippines. My opinion on buying something, even if I could, in Philippines I would at this point say ” approach with caution ” . Staying in a decent hotel can cost $100 per week in some areas and thats a lot cheaper than many rents here in the USA For me, if I were to contemplate a move there that is the way I would go and then look for a rental over a period of time. From my own experience on my visits and what I have read here many times I think I would have to agree that a rental might be the most logical way to go at least for starters.
Hi John – Your correct we did not just jump at either the first place or house we saw, I had 20 years experiance of the area we chose to build our house in.
Regards.
Jim.
John, you made a lot of good points about renting. For me, when I build my house, it’s where I will spend my old age; so renting won’t work for me. Also, I don’t plan to get a mortgage, fortunately we will have to funds to do build. It won’t be huge house, a simple ranch style or bungalow would suffice as long as I have enough yard for a small vegetable garden.
As a full time real estate investor for the last 26 years I generally agree with Johns opinion. If you are looking at a real estate purchase in the RP for investment IMHO avoid it at all costs…the return on investment (roi) is minimal, while talking to several pinoy investors last year they were giddy they were getting 4-5% return. Factor in the rate of inflation and its much less..I smiled and congratulated them but by my standards it was a dismal return unworthy of the investment.
Yes there are places which do well and have a above agerage rate of return on investment but most people do not have the skill set to ferret that market out effectively.
Now if you are not looking to capitalize on the market and could careless what it does as in Paul’s position who owns for the joy of owning then its the right decision to do.
If you do decide to buy I’d spend time ample time researching your target market beforehand , if it were me I’d rent in the area for a year first (i.e rainy season)
To expand a bit on a topic John touched on ..the way the title/deed is transferred
sometimes many months AFTER you pay the seller is a major issue with me and one which should be scrutinized prior to buying. I know of several large building projects which were semi completed that ended in a title dispute that went unresolved for years and the buyer simply walked from the project after a sizable amount was spent on the uncompleted construction. If you have spent anytime in the RP you’ve seen them… you know what I am talking about.
The emotions that run hot on this topic appears to be a clash between the investment mind and the passion to own mind, neither is wrong , you just have to understand the motivation behind their opinion.
Right on.
Greg: I somewhat agree with you, but I will say the following: Those I know who have been burned have always either done one of two things:
1. Rushed in before knowing what the real situation is
2. Gotten involved in various schemes to circumvent the law.
That said, there are ways to “own”, and some are riskier than others. I always refer to the costitution, the supreme law of the land, which specifically, and unambiguously, prohibits foreign ownership.
That said, there are many different options… But most are not really very feasible until you are here for a while, and learn what you are doing.
As to “gift”, I’m not so certain… Rebecca has her own land, built her own house in the province. She doesn’t particularly like Manila… We are here because of my job and school for my son. She is just about at the CARP limit for land holdings. Were we to buy in Manila, she would need to sell some other land… So this gift, in our case, could very well turn out to be a headache, rather than a gift.
Hi Brian – After 30 years with my Asawa I think I’m pretty stable. But what some people are trying to say here its not only about investment its about giving your partner something should you go first. It appears there is a mine and hers syndrome and as pointed out by others if that mentality exists don’t buy ever, that way no one can take anything from you only the landlord.
Regards.
Jim.
What I forgot to mention is that with good advance planning, you should have NO house payment and more disposable income to work with. Now that’s something to shoot for! 😀
Miss August: Certainly, that is a valid point. I think the biggest message I tried to convey was that you should rent here first, and get the “lay of the land” before spending tons of money. Houses here can quickly turn into gigantic money pits if you are not careful.
Hi Tom, good return but it gets back to who really owns it? I understand you .. dont get me wrong , but for the expat/investor its kinda based on how sound your relationship is.
Land with clean title is a good investment anywhere, they ain’t making anymore and it requires very little maintanance.
jonh
the home i am buying to live in not just investment ok it as been a dream for years too have a home mate so this is my deam and i am happy to tell u if i was to die in the next year or so this home then will go to my wife and the kids and at lst thay will always have a place to live ok as home here in tassie are now are over $200.000 and on the manland it is over $500.0000 and how in the hell am i meent to pay off a home like that mate when i do not work as about 4 years a got two scum got hold off me in a park and put a disk out and now i canot work at all so there would be no way a men would think about buying a place here but there i can ok keep up ur good work mate ok …peter martin tassie
Louie: There is a case to be made for both options, but there are many ways to provide security. In our situation, buying makes no sense (and my wife agrees, perhaps more strongly than me).
Tom: That assumes that someone is willing to pay that for something you have built. The profit does not exist until you are paid. I know many houses in the Philippines that have been on the market for 5 years or more… This often happens with large houses in the province.
Hi Tom
That is great, I am looking in the condo market, but it seems the return is extremely low. I am thinking about land too or fish pond since I am renting it anyway.
John;
After reading your comments I must agree with you on your points for renting. there in Manila.
Having no desire to retire here in the Philippines-RENT
Being closer to the airport as your job requires you to fly for work-RENT
The incredible high cost of owning in Manila-RENT
Planning on leaving the Philippines within a year-Rent
Good schools for your son in Manila-RENT
The problems you and your wife have had with squatters on her property-AGAIN RENT
I understand that you love your wife, and you have other plans to take care of her and your son’s security someplace other than the Philippines-RENT
None of your very valid reasons for renting apply to me or many others and we choose to own a house here where we will live out the remainder of our life.
I rented for 5 years before I built a house. I know all about renting.
I had preformed my due-diligence prior to buying the land.
We then waited another two years before breaking ground and building.
We have lived here in our house for 14 years and are pleased with our decision.
And all this proves is; that we are both right!
But it was a fun discussion.
Randy: Renting can be a nightmare, but you are short long term monetary committment. As I stated above, there are many ways to provide security: Not just land. Again, it really is a personal decision, but there are always options.
Good point, your wife owns it.
What’s “tassie”???
I don’t know what planet you’r living on Benny. My house here cost 6 million pesos to build, plus 2m for the lot. In quiet an exclusive subdivision in Laguna. Thats approx £107,000. The same house anywhere near London in the UK, would cost £500,000-700,000. I was there every day while it was being constructed,. and it’s rock solid.
It’s ll come down to this: If you don’t’ trust your wife and you think the relationship will go bust, they don’t buy.
I believe the state of Tasmania in Australia, John.
A nice house as per North American standards will cost here on Palawan about $30k.
That is roughly 3 years rent in a big city.
I am talking 2 bedrooms 2 bathrooms concrete house.
Here are 3 photos for you to judge about the quality.
Cheers!
That is our guest bathroom and the porch for afternoon Gin & Tonic.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff474/PhilippinoBob/IMG_0288.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff474/PhilippinoBob/IMG_0289.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff474/PhilippinoBob/IMG_1047.jpg
I have read all comments, but i give my opinion anyway:
I prefere to “own” a house (my wife own) of some simple reasons:
I like to give my wife some securety and the feeling of having her own house, no matter what happens to me.
It is a clear sign that i trust my wife and trust our relationship will last, since i can’t own on my own and have no rights in case of divorce.
Over a period og some years it is cheaper to own.
I can make the changes i want without loosing the investment if i move.
No owner can tell me what i can do or what i can’t do, no owner can raise the rent.
When this is said i can see it is a good idea to rent, untill you are sure you have found the right place to live here.
That’s how simple and easy i feel about own/rent.
Have a great day
Axel
Real estate investment in the Philippines?
When I moved here 12 years ago my wife bought a residential lot 3000 square meters in Roxas City for 500 square meter last week I was offered 2500 square meter the average price in town is around 3000-6000 sq meter for residential now
In the province we purchased 18 hectares of sugar land for 50 Piso per square meter average current price to purchase same land now after 12 years is 800-1000 square meter if you can find it for sale
This land was purchased when the Piso was 56 to $1 USD today its 41.72 – $1 USD
For some reason land seems to be a good investment here maybe I missing something?
Tom / Roxas City
Owning a home is not just a western ideas. 🙂
Ricardo, if a foreigners relationship is unstable, why would that foreigner even consider buying? That would not be the smart thing to do. I believe I equated building/buying to making making a smart long term investment, which I think would include a stable relationship. Relationship no good – no buy! It’s that simple. And political turmoil? …it can happen anywhere. But as a 13A visa holder, well….that’s all part of the equation. Everything you do in life is a calculated risk, is it not?
Ricardo: I sort of thought that was somewhat implied… I also know a number of people who lost everything buying “freehold” in Mexico (The law changed) and the UAE (The sheikh decided one day to expropriate “freehold” property to build a mall… No compensation). As a foreigner, especially regarding land and real estate, you will always be at a disadvantage.
What’s “tassie”?
Always in the back of my mind.
Gary: I agree… If it works for you and your wife, why change it? There are other ways to provide security besides owning a house.
*then don’t buy.
How right MISS August
as i have just write ok if thee is not trust there is no love for get and get out and go home……mmmmm
Bob: For starters, I agree 100%.
Fantastic article, let me share my view on why I will be buying a house in the Philippines when the wife and I move there in 2013.
My reasons are very simple and clean cut. I want to have a place that my wife can call her’s / our’s. It all boils down to security, I want HER to feel secure with a piece of mind knowing that she will always have that roof over her head, as life is way to short to play the guessing game, as you never know when your time is up… I want to know that my wife will be ok. To me that’s worth it’s weight in gold. Now I am not trying to sound morbid as I am a young guy with a young wife (near the same age) but life does not have any guarantees. However I can make sure that my loved ones are secure, that’s a guarantee I can and will make.
My outlook might be very very different from some of you here, but at the end of the day, I love my wife with every ounce of my being, I love my family clan (yes I call them mine because they are the best.) So it is really a piece of mind for me.
Regards;
Bilko
This is not a case of relationship gone sour, but, more likely, a paradise gone sour.
http://liveinthephilippines.com/the-missing-postman-and-the-bank-teller/
There is no right or wrong decision on this issue, as many others have pointed out. The decision to buy or rent is entirely dependent on individual circumstances and point of view. What I find admirable, though, is the foreigner’s unselfish motivation to buy above all other considerations in order to have a lasting legacy for his wife. As for me, I have both feet firmly planted on both sides of the Pacific Ocean as I have no plans to live in the Philippines full-time.
Randy, you are a classic example of the saying “a fool and his money”
John M,
Thank you for the very informative article. It explains a lot about the concept of “To buy or not to buy” and all the different elements that one should consider before buying – very sound advice. Thank you again; I’m learning so much.
Miss August: That seems like a good option, if it works for you… Personal wants and desires, again.
Reading this article by John and the one previously written by Paul(along with replies and posts), you could see clash of ideas and reasoning over the hot topic of buying/building or renting a house. They’re both good depends on one’s preference or need. There would be no clear-cut winner if we’re going to debate which is better. Both choices have advantages and disadvantages. They’re both right depending on the situation he/she’s in. That said, I admire those who choose to build a house to give their love ones a permanent home whatever may happen in the future. For them they see it not as investment for profit, but rather an everlasting evidence of their love. Their loving-kindness attitude is admirable.
If you wanna build a house, then make sure it’s far far away from the rotten Filipina’s family. How many stories have i heard about the kano living with a family of 12 palamunins that just sponge off him and yet don’t do anything to contribute. You even get randoms turning up asking for handouts. That’s why my does not go back christmas time anymore and most payments from what i know have been cut off with the mother in law maybe recieving 5000 a month.
Having said that i have mo money but mo problems either LoL. I have a free house to stay at for aslong as i feel like and requests for money are denied on sight. The last thing i want is to foot the bill for some random kid’s hospital bills or have to deal with a squatter over land transfer titles like a writer on this website did
Brianking ~ I don’t plan on living in an investment…We plan on living in our ‘home’, which will be paid for. And I’d say a 3-4% annual ROI on investment properties in the RP are much better than what the USA has been doing of late. If anyone has any ideas of building or buying and flipping for profit in the RP, well you might as well stay put…it doesn’t very often have a happy ending, at least in the residential sector.
Hi John,
Thank you for your reply.
Perhaps ,’Why Renting Can Be the Best Way to Go’, might have been a better title for your well constructed article?
T’was an enjoyable read; keep up the good work!
James: How did you buy? Is it a condo?
MR.MIELE,LET THESE GUYS BUY THEIR LOVING WIVES A HOUSE,IT IS THE LEAST THEY CAN DO,RIGHT? I HAVE SEEN SO MANY GUYS BUY HOUSES THEY NO LONGER LIVE IN IT MAKES ME LAUGH.IF THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT BUYING A SUB-STANDARD STRUCTURE AT OUTRAGEOUS PER SQUARE FOOT PRICES,AND EVEN WORSE IF MORTGAGING,14% IS AN APR I WILL NEVER PAY….WHO ARE ME AND YOU TO STOP THEM? HAVE YOU EVER MET A MAN WHO THOUGHT HE HAD GOOD IDEA THAT LIKED BEING TOLD IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA?….LET THEM BUY A PACE!
SOMETIMES A WORD TO THE WISE IS NOT SUFFICIENT,AND OF COURSE THE GUYS THAT GOT DECENT DEALS 10 YRS. AGO WILL ALL BE ON HERE BASHING ME…THE TRAIN HAS LEFT THE STATION ON GOOD DEALS ON HOUSING IN THE PHILIPPINES.WHERE DID IT GO???? LAS VEGAS AND ALMOST EVERY OTHER PLACE IN THE U.S.A. OR EUROPE COMPARED TO THE PRICES PER SQ. FOOT/METER,APR RATES INTEREST RATES AND CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS.SERIOUSLY I COULD POST ADS FOR PLACES FOR SALE IN THE PHILIPPINES THAT ARE OUTRAGEOUS IN COMPARISON TO THE ABILITY TO PAY FOR THE PLACE IN RELATION TO THE LOCAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES,AS WELL AS IN COMPARISON TO THE PLACES I JUST MENTIONED.THE PRICES HERE ARE LAUGHABLE,PER SQUARE FOOT/METER.
Papa Duck: If it works for you, then great.
Ricardo: Unselfishness is one thing… jumping in without knowing the true risks is something else. Again, everyone’s comfort level is different. It does not always relate to trust.
Yes we could
Paul: Rebecca always has the option to go back… Not even taking into account insurance and other security. Security does not necessarily need to be land (I’m pretty much worth more dead than alive… I croak, she can buy what she wishes)
Hehe!
Hi James – I am curious… given that neither you nor your wife are Philippine citizens, how did you purchase land here? Something does not smell right…
Brian: I cannot disagree… Real estate game in the RP is very risky. Nearly every foreigner I know who has lost money here, it was two major things: Real estate or small business. That is why I keep stressing not to invest uless you are here for a while.
Good article, John.
I always recommend to rent first and then take your time deciding what is the best place/land to buy.
Having bought a big house on a big land in Cebu and now living in NZ as an absentee landlord puts me in the position to really appreciate the burdens of ownership.
Between tenants, there is no income. Some tenants will trash the place or stick you with a large power bill. As a foreigner, I am practically forced to rent only to foreigners. (in case of a legal conflict, the foreigner is at a disadvantage and may have difficulty to get a Filipino to vacate)
Because I am pretty picky in who I accept, the property can be vacant for a while. But where can you rent something for 70K pesos/mo that would cost you a million bucks to buy? In the Philippines, that’s where. Have a look at the web site to see what I mean.
Sigle family homes have taken a beating on equity but all the ones I have are still doing well on return (well over 10% ) most fellow investors who did not over leverage themselves are still doing ok.
What planet are you on Benny??? I haven’t seen one here who agrees with you. Most of us “foreigners” who come here can afford to buy without a mortgage. Prices? The house I had built here in an “up market” subdivision cost about 20% what it would cost back home in London. It’s built to a very good standard. No cracked walls, or foundations. However, like MOST people on here agree, it’s not for everyone.
Randy: I also draw a distinction between buying a place to live and an investment.
As I see it, the decision to rent or buy, is very much down to personal circumstances.
My wife and I decided to buy our home.
We spent some time deciding where we wanted to be based.
We travelled around the area, looking at Barangays and estates that we could feel safe and contented.
We eventually decided on an area, and (New Build) home (with Clean Title) that ‘ticked the boxes’.
The BIG difference between us, and most (if not all) couples who live in Mindanao, is that we are both foreign.
Therefore our personal circumstances differ.
Our neighbours were somewhat surprised, when we turned up to move in.
But we soon established ourselves, and are well accepted, not only in the neighbourhood, but over a wide area.
We made a good/fortunate choice on our home and area.
Renting gives flexibility for those looking for ‘the place’, but we did our homework, and are still happy with our choice.
Regards James ee it, the
Hi Palawan Bob- Well if no one else is happy your dog certainly looks contented with the house.
All the best.
Jim.
Bob: And, if that works for you, then great.
Well said Bilko! Peace of mind also goes a long way with me. 😉
Peterjoy: Exactly my point: You were here first for a while, before buying. In my mind, that makes sense. You also stated you were buying a place to live… Not just as investment.
it looks like to me at hearing and reading all ur post here that u dont trust filipina wife if there is no trust there is no love so start looking at ur self and why do u all wont to be marred if u dont trust ur wife and think she will run and take the home with her it looks too me it was better for u to stay home then go and live in the php or put a little bloody trust in ur wife after all that is why u meet and married her right and as for my self i have been married for 7 years+1 and as it is a long story and i will not go in to it today but my dear one still lives in the php and i live here in tassie it is very hard but we are buying a place there why as i trust and love my wife and she loves me so how about it boys love ur wife or for get it and go home………..peter martin
Well said, Biko! I think I can speak for the Filipina wives out there. We want to feel secure in our marriage… emotional security, physical security and financial security.
Ah yes. Of course. Thanks.
The way they drive in Phil, any of us could go at any time LOL
Bilko;
You’ve made my point, my friend passed last year; his young wife had never been to the US so she can receive nothing of his pensions. The money in the bank was gone because of his hospital stay. His rented palace had to be let go do to the high cost of rent. His car was sold to pay for his burial, but he did lease a very small bar in the Barrio and that and the furniture was what she was left with. He subsidized the bar with his retirement and you would never get rich living off it, so she runs it now, and lives in a small back room of the bar.. Because his friends know his wife is a good woman and cared for him, we all stop into the bar and stay awile to insure she is making money. He never felt the need to buy a house.
Bilko: That works in your case. In my case, my wife is:
1. Dealing with a squatter for nearly 4 years in court.
2. At her CARP limit for land holdings.
3. Already owns a house in the province.
4. Does not like Manila, but we are somewhat restricted here by our situation.
Finally, I just found out that I am 80% likely to be leaving the Philippines for work. Had we bought or built in Manila, we would have a very real hassle.
Not owning a home here does not mean that I love my wife any less, or am not concerned for her welfare. There are many ways to provide security.
Bob I believe you, another contributor of this site said it cost $40,000 to build his house. What I don’t get is why some area here in Manila cost half a million US dollar for 120 square. And the electricity rate is like 4 times of L.A., is it like this in other parts of the Philippines? Is the utility price subject to regulation here?
Don: I have no intention of retiring here… In fact, due to job, highly likely will be leaving in the next year.
David: Glad you found it useful… I’m not totally against buying, but I do believe that knowing the risks is important.
Fabulous view Bob!
As I see it, the decision to rent or buy, is very much down to personal circumstances.
My wife and I decided to buy our home.
We spent some time deciding where we wanted to be based.
We travelled around the area, looking at Barangays and estates that we could feel safe and contented.
We eventually decided on an area, and (New Build) home (with Clean Title) that ‘ticked the boxes’.
The BIG difference between us, and most (if not all) couples who live in Mindanao, is that we are both foreign.
Therefore our personal circumstances differ.
Our neighbours were somewhat surprised, when we turned up to move in.
But we soon established ourselves, and are well accepted, not only in the neighbourhood, but over a wide area.
We made a good/fortunate choice on our home and area.
Renting gives flexibility for those looking for ‘the place’, but we did our homework, and are still happy with our choice.
Regards James ee it, the
John,
I think i am in the best position. Will be living in a house that is fully paid for and furnished by my G/F. So financially i won’t be out of anything if things don’t happen to work and she will have security of house ownership. Good article. Have a nice day.
This is a great read that helped spark such a debate and enabled the reader to draw some sentiment on the topic with had. In my opinion, I will prefer to purchase a house opposed to renting a house for these reasons:
1- When you buy, you’ll have the sense of ownership and security that will influence how you live your life on-words.
2- After doing your homework, you can’t go wrong with the site and type of house you want to live in for permanent or long term stay that exceeds at least 10 years.
3- As far as I know, and maybe I’m wrong, the property value of the land goes up by time due to many economical factors: most prominent – housing demand, economic and demographic growth, industry and development, and some other important indicators that you should study in order to foresee the near economic outcome.
4- One thing to keep in mind – there is nothing for certain, but you can do your homework to minimize risks through your assessment based on your personal preference and the right fit to take the decision up on it.
5- If anything, based on love and affection, love will determine your fate to answer the million dollar question: to buy or not to buy!
If I lived in Manila I would choose to rent to John.
Hi John.
I posted a reply but it got lost.
I bought a house and it is on a 150 sq metr plot of land.
We could have 500 sq metres in our own nama.
our attorney helped us on that.
Regards James
Jonno: That is a very real risk, particularly for those in new marriages / relationships. You are correct that many people have become stuck or lost everything by building before they know the true situation.
In my case, we are very stable. Those concerns don’t bother me… Personal comfort level.
Hi John,
Another interesting article. We are looking forward to retiring to the Philippines from our home in Minnesota in a few years. My wife purchased a lot for a $1,000 in the province near her family about 15 years ago, which I had reservations about at the time. Since then, we’ve decided it would be better to live away from the family and just rent. We’ve been told the value of our property is at least $6K now, although I’ll have my doubts until the money is in hand. I’m really just hoping we can at least break even. You’re talking about the difficulty of selling homes there. Do you think it would be different just selling an empty lot? It is a nice piece of property in a beautiful neighborhood and we’ve had an offer. Thanks John. I’ve enjoyed your straight talk writing.
Joop: Certainly valid points.
I guess it’s horses for courses. If it feels right for you and your circumstances then do it. As to James Watt, what? Sure buddy.
After 5 years I looked into the option of buying twice and only fate and gut feeling intervened to prevent heartache. Nearly ended up buying land (in my wife’s name) from someone who never owned the land in the first place. I am still renting after 7 years.
What John is saying, have a long look first. Rent a while. Get a feel of the place. I moved 3 times, the neighbours drove me nuts. Live with the in laws for a few weeks, NOW that will be an eye opener.
Then take a look at how many of your foreign mates actually stay in the Philippines or the area that you live in, then you will realize its not that many. Most do end up moving elsewhere and that’s a fact.
I have read all the comments here and it is not a question of loving anyone for me.IF I were to leave my wife here in the fils.,she could have the damm house.If I am not going to be happy living in it I could not put it on my back and take it with me anyway.It is quite simply the OUTRAGEOUS PRICES per sq.foot/meter in the Philippines coupled with the shoddy construction materials used by builders and last but not least the APR on mortgages is 4X’s that of the West right now. I had hoped to come to one of the countries in S.E.ASIA AND get a reasonable deal on a house for say,$75,000.00 and for what I can get here and what I can get in the WEST AS WELL AS THE TANGIBLES MENTIONED ABOVE,it is quite simply NO CONTEST.THE WEST WINS…HANDS DOWN.I am quite disappointed, but IT S OK,I HAD FUN AND WAS ABLE TO DO WHAT I NEEDED TO DO HERE,AND THEN SOME.GOOD LUCK TO THOSE OF YOU WHO CHOOSE TO BUY.
Ramy: So because I don’t own a house here, then I don’t love my wife?
That works in your case. In my case, my wife is:
1. Dealing with a squatter for nearly 4 years in court.
2. At her CARP limit for land holdings.
3. Already owns a house in the province.
4. Does not like Manila, but we are somewhat restricted here by our situation.
Finally, I just found out that I am 80% likely to be leaving the Philippines for work. Had we bought or built in Manila, we would have a very real hassle.
Not owning a home here does not mean that I love my wife any less, or am not concerned for her welfare. There are many ways to provide security.
Hi John
I have a resident card here called ACR, can I buy a house here? I know no problem with condo which I prefer because I want to rent it out when I am back to the States. I checked out a building in Green Hills and was told the rent would be 1200 peso per square meter, 3 bed room 130 sq meter price is 21 million peso with 64 peso per square meter association fee, even using 5 percent interest 30 year like in US the rent is so low just barely break even. I dont know the reason of high interest rate here maybe here the expectation of return on investment is much higher.
How is your fish pond? Since you live in Manila ever thought of renting one nearby so it is easy for you or your wife to manage? As I said in your fish pond post I paid down payment today and ready to buy fingerlings soon. I need to do some research on tiger shrimps and put it in one of 2 ponds I rent because I was told now is the season for salt water.
On of the poster in your fish pond post said she owns fish pond in NH, I wonder if that is a province here or New Hampshire in the east coast? I will update you on my fish pond business so other expats get some ideas what kind of venture is viable in this country.
Nice picture of that property in Laguna, Boom. Can one rent units in it or buy time shares?
The article is more aimed at professional Filipino’s than expats, I think.
For a newbie expat, it makes good sense to rent for a year and use that time to look around for an attractive property to buy.
But how about other options of owning? How about having a 25- year lease, when you are already 65? It ties up less capital and saves you children the hassle of inheriting in the Philippines.
How about time share options, where you can reserve those chilly winter months at a place on the beach? Where you can rent out the weeks that you don’t use?
I like to hear from readers who have experience with those options.
And, with permission, Bob, while I’m at it, for people who are looking for a cheap rent: my 2 storey gate house at Orchid Park, Cebu is now for rent for 7000 p/mo.
I have seen this issue of buying versus renting debated on here a few times in the past, and to the best of my recollection, the consensus was, there is no right or wrong decision. It all depends on individual circumstances. For example, if you are a young single, professional with an office in Makati, it makes sense to rent a studio or an efficiency inside the city close to your work. The rent would be relatively cheaper because it’s only a studio even if it’s located smack dab in the center of the city close to your work. However, if you are a professional, also working in Makati but with a young family of, say, 2 or 3 kids, the rent you will be paying for a 3-bedroom condo near your work in the city would probably eat up a large chunk of your salary. Another factor to consider is the environment. Where would you want to raise your young family? Within the confines of a polluted, crowded, noisy city or out in the vast expanse of the quiet suburbs where the air is also much fresher? Like in Laguna.
hi mate good posting ok
but i love that photo ok down in laguna and yes it is a lovely spot to live as i am buying a home there my self and have been doing so now for 3 years asi can never buy a home here at home in tassie as where i can get a home there in the php for 20.000 the same home here would cost me 200.000 ok so i wont to tell u all out there buy and give ur wife home…..peter martin tassie
I prefer buying if you are planning on being in the area for five or more years and if buying doesn’t put you in a bind. When it is paid for you will be glad you bought it as the rent payment stops.
I like the idea of renting. I like the idea of owning. Think I’ll do both. Have a larger compound out in the countryside for family, and rent in the city where conveniences are more readily available.
I would agree in the current economic climate and whether one is single or just newly married renting is probably the best option. However the majority of readers here are already retired or about to retire with a property to sell in their home country which makes it easier to buy here.
Personally I’m glad we purchased when we did as against todays exchange rates it would have cost us an additional £13,000.00 to build that of course does not take into consideration any increase in materials and labour during the ensuing period.
With retirement incomes usually being semi fixed rent payments at to-days exchange rates have increased above inflation for most folks although in reality rents have not increased much but exchange rates have caused the increase due to getting less for your home currency.
Its horses for courses but with the fluctuation in exchange rates as I previously mentioned all I can say is I have more peace of mind by owning a property as opposed to renting and of course I have something tangible to leave my family when I’m gone.
Regards.
Jim.
Jim do not forget to leave me that 35 year old bottle of royal salute you have been hoarding for years would not like to see it go to waste.
I intend to retire to the Philippines, I will be living on my works pension plus the state pension (UK) when I reach retirement age for me this is 66. My house in the UK will be paid for and today the rent is £700 per month.
By renting in the Philippines it will be covered from rent I receive from my home in the UK and, it gives me a plan B should I ever get homesick or require serious medical treatment ( health care is free in the UK).
Be nice if you Brits could straighten us Americans on Health Care!-)
Hi Gerry, £700 is quite good . Is it down south or up north if I may ask? We have similar plan ( me and hubby) keep the house in UK and perhaps buy or rent a place in Philippines.
This site is good- has a lot of useful read. Thank you for all the post
My biggest question in regard to the rent/buy debate is home owners insurance. I’ve read so many places that insurance in the Phil. is about as valuable as the paper it’s written on. So that means if a typhoon or other natural disaster wipes out your house, your left to rebuild out of your own wallet again since there will be no insurance check waiting for you. If that’s the case, then renting would be the only option for me. Anybody have any insight into this matter?
I personally think renting a home gets you more bang for your buck, you can live in a much better house than you can afford to buy. For example, the house I would like to own here in the Philippines is in a guarded sub division, with modern amenities like hot water, air con throughout and is 3br, 2 bath. Regardless of area this house would cost p5million or more to buy and to rent it unfurnished only 20-25,000 per month. Plus the renter is not responsible for natural disaster damages like flooding, earthquake, etc
Hi Dick – What you say makes a lot of sense and really aligns with what I have experienced. Rental prices, as a percentage of the value of the property are very low in the Philippines.
Dick,
Renting is good for some people, but i prefer not to have make any kind of monthly payment.
Yes you do make a good point with not having a monthly payment, I just personally think that being out of my element with regard to home ownership in the Philippines it is safer for me to rent, at least for the time being anyway.
It sounds to me like the rent or buy debate is still about evenly devided. Sounds as if renting gives one the ability to move around and live in much more house for the money as well freedom from some of the expenses reguarly incurred by homeowners. Owning appears to have advantages such as stated above, something tangible to leave to family, as well as freedom from monthly payments. There are no doubt many other pros for each as well as some cons. A big con for renting may be as the peso gains in strength renting may put a dent in many budgets. This would not be a problem if you own. Of course the assumption is one either paid cash for or has paid off the mortgage. What if you’re buying and have a mortgage. Is your family in a position to make the payments should you not be there? I think all of the above comments are good. It seems there may not be a best way, only one based on a careful evaluation of many factors.
BTW
Jamie, Give them time. America is headed toward the UK healthcare system. That’s if they don’t go broke first.
Wow Bob,
That is sad, but true. Having lived and done business around the world and in the US, I must agree…we CAN BE PERCEIVED as complainers and hard to deal with…as well as, party animals and hard to accommodate -for lack of better words.
However, in our defense, the US has some of the highest service standards in the world. We have grown accustomed to tipped-service employes, easy no-hassle return policies, free demos and trial offers, ‘the customer is always right’ and powerful communication; so when most come to the Philippines, we expect a lot for our hard-earned dollars.
In addition, we tend to ‘enhance’ places we stay. We often paint, landscape, decorate, hire staff and bring a cheery (sometimes too cheery) atmosphere. Most American’s, we love a good cocktail.
But, as a black American, I know that dealing with ‘Americans’ is just an evolution in Philippines diversity and growth. Just as whites had to deal with blacks: now; thanks to Obama, there is a basketball court in the white house and Tiger Woods had fried chicken served at the US Open) and as we deal with Latins, Africans and the other hundred’s of nationalities in the States. The Philippines is the most diverse country in Asia…so, it’s just growing pains.
I think that if in America, we started to say ‘we don’t hire Filipinos’ it would be an outrage. And, we never will say that…so, please (not you Bob) extend the same ‘warm welcome’ to us as renters and home builder’s as we do to OFW’s in the US.
Cheers!
Kareem
This has been going on for years, and in many different countries. I have traveled a lot, and been in the phils many times. I find this easily taken care of with a few kind words and a humble approach. Let us not forget there are many American who are very giving, and by many consider to be great customers. Unlike many other countries we tip, and this is greatly appreciated. As for myself I enjoy the people in the phils and I try to show it every time I am there, and they return the favor.
OMG.. I saw you and your wifey in my cousin’s wedding last year! month of September 🙂
OK. Who is your cousin?
Having problems with the 6 month post dated checks!! No bank account in the Philippines, they require a 6 month wait on the checking account!! Condos require 2 month rent 2 month deposit and 10 post dated checks. Who can give me advise!!
Try different banks. I have a checking account in the Philippines and there was no 6 month waiting period, as you suggest. Also, when I have been asked for PDC (Post dated checks) for a rental, I have refused, and we have always been able to negotiate it away.
Which bank if I may ask?
I bank with Union Bank, but just ask around.
Anyway, Thanks!!!
You are welcome. Good luck to you.
Thanks
Hi Bob and yes you are correct Real Estate in the PI can be a big problem. Merlyn and I were very lucky to find a very cheap house and lot in Davao (Matina) not far from main highway. Through word of mouth and family friends we were able to buy it for just back taxes and a little cash. The big expense was getting a clear title. The main reason for buying was prices going up and dollar going down. Also my wife will have something when I am gone for her to live in. All toll for 3 br. 2 bath newly remodeled May 2013 (some small thing to complete) …..$25,000 USD (small lot).
Sounds like you got a steal, Dave. Also sounds like your house is close to mine. 🙂
Sadly, I’m Guilty as Charged. the ugly American…
I’m normally mild-mannered but i lost it the other day. Ive been here off and on for almost 3 years and I know how things work. but this last week something got under my skin and i had to complain…
We were all in a local bus traveling from Davao City to Panabo and the driver kept loading more and more passengers til there was no room to move. I gave my seat up to a lady and everyone looked at me like i was nuts. My wife frowned quietly. “Sorry” I told her. “My mama taught me you give your seat up to ladies and elderly. I’m not changing”. So I spent the next 30 min crammed in the aisle with all the others. As soon as the girl left my seat a skinny guy shot into it next to my wife… dozens of other ladies stood in the aisle accepting their lot. oh well…
But then when it comes time for us to get off no-one would budge. No one would move to let us out. they didn’t want to lose their spot in the aisle. my wife and our helper were struggling with the kids and i had 2-3 bags… I lost it. I started pushing everyone in front of us off the bus yelling at them “Use your brain people! You can’t take our seat if we can’t get off. You cant leave this station if we can’t get off!”
Nice job Rick…
We all have an opinion on how things should be or how it could be done better and I think thats what gets us in to trouble. You need to be ok with whatever you get here. If you think there is a better way, keep it to yourself. it’s not how its done here and your opinion may not be welcome.
I see it on blogs all the time in response to foreigners complaints. “Don’t like it here? Leave!”
oh well. As they say “When in Rome…”
Filipinos are now more aware of the international news, and the policies of America that has inflicted massive damage in many nations. They are more educated and well aware than before, of Americans and their mindsets in general. In the past, before cable tv or other things made an impact, most people only knew about Americans as those who fought Japanese. But in reality, most people didn’t know is why Americans fought Japanese, because they wanted to save their colony not cos they really cared a rat about Filipinos. People are also fed up with the way American old men come here, looking down on local men and oggling after women their granddaughter’s age. Seriously bob, the world has grown up. Except for good ole US of A.
Greetings from a Cebuana now living in Australia.
Hi i just bumped into your article, and it’s really insightful. You seem very content with your life sa Filipinas. The last time I was in Cebu, late 2005, I’ve just begun to notice a growing number of white Westerners in the region, and I, only 14 then, wondered why they flock to this pit hole (sorry to refer my home that way). On a surface level, filipinos generally revere any foreigner (especially those who speak English very well)- for many it’s status symbol- I mean, really, we watch more Hollywood movies than even our own! Added to the fact that our culture associates light skin with being rich- and this still traces back from those Spanish colonial rule. Society there operates like a little caste system where even someone like me, from a low-income family (dad a lawyer who’s paid a pittance, and mom is just a teacher earning even less than the casuals at McDonalds’ here in Aus), gets stigmatised.
I don’t want to come off as someone who’s anti-Filipino, but I definitely am very indignant by the fact that even my own people try to make sure I don’t feel all too well at home here. In my direct experience with an American, it was actually, I shall admit, cool. Yes, my impressions as a little child with foreigners is that you have cool personalities. The American guy who used to live in a flat had a motorbike, and everytime we meet up, along with other neighbour kids, he would give us candies (he reminded me a little bit of Macguyver- haha I know it’s just that he was youngish and fit (this was in the late 90s)). I didn’t think he was anyway rude (probably because it was a little more urban so less chicken noises and dogs wandering about), but most often times I never see him in and out of the compound. Now, I used to live in a compound where you have disgusting landlords (they’re actually freeloading children of a wealthy architect). And these SOB (sorry for the language) were sly and bratty at the same time. They also had connections with the police so if anything, they’d heckle their tenants…I really don’t want to go down into that detail at this point; such painful memories.
I guess the point in all this is that, filipinos themselves are very disrespectful and even more so than the rude & disrespectful American foreigners. I mean, you’re a more decent guy yourself (and I hope that your presence there can only influence all those around you that they, too, would be just as civil as you towards their own neighbours). It’s just amusing how these landlords would turn down rude foreigners (perhaps they didn’t want to be around their mirror images?), and so easy for them to use that ol’ tactic playing with the victim complex just to get their way. Again, this is just my perspective over the situation.
My family had tried to be good citizens there but no matter how much we give, the return has always been more condescension- heck, even the cattle there are treated a little better than filipino amo (bosses) toward their filipino employees. Yes, there are good filipinos, but they are often as well outnumbered by the hooligan mentality of the majority (poor or rich alike). Somehow, the thoughts never escape me that many filipinos just want nothing but a quick buck (yes, including the rich bratty kids I used to go to school with there).
In my opinion, filipinos must learn from the good foreigners like yourself, who sees the value in a person more than a walking cash 🙂
When I spent 6 weeks in Makati back in 07 I leasesd a condo for the 6 week period. I paid the rent in advance and gave a P30,000 deposit for the final electric bill and any damages. Of the 6 weeks during the lease, I was in Bora for a week, Laguna for 5 days and Mindoro for 5 days. WHen I wasnt staying in the condo, all electricity was turned off. We barely ran the AC while there. WHen we checked out, guess what our electric bill was? P30,010! I fought and argued with the brick wall management but you can probably guess where that ended.
Things I learned about renting in the PI:
-DOnt pay for more then a months rent as deposit
-Dont expect things to get fixed in a hurry
-Expect that the broken tile in the bathroom with mildew wasnt there before you checked in, but was 10 minutes later and now you must pay for it
-Never expect and deposit money back
-If you fix or upgrade something, the landlord will somehow consider it a nuisance
Your math makes complete sense, at these times, cash is KING. It is also indeed true that higher-end properties like 20M++ are very hard to sell, same case here in Cebu.
Thanks for your input, John.
I made the decision in 2011 to move from Manila to Angeles City. Since my lease was up there were not any “attachments” keeping me from moving. I’m really glad I didn’t try to buy a condo in Manila.
Glad to hear that things worked out well for you, Kevin.
Great post Bob! I’m with you in the renting category… especially considering I can’t even own any property in my own name. I have been visiting the Philippines since 1987 and I have seen areas in the Cebu City region that I thought would be nice to live in become a total mess over 20 or 25 years time. With the poor building materials, lack or any concept of city planning, e.g. zoning and the state of semi-organized chaos that is a 3rd world country there’s no way I’m sinking several hundred grand of my hard earned dollars into it. The example you gave is logical and something anybody can put on an Excel spreadsheet and see for themselves.
Hi Dana, thanks for your comment. Glad you see it in a way similar to the way I see it. Of course, in the end, it is a matter of personal choice and just depends on our personal preference.
For you single guys ,you can stay in decent hotel with air con flat screen tv wi/fi cable ,telephone in your rm for all local calls, hot and cold western shower and bathroom, swimming pool, 24 hour security, refrigerator , rm service for like 15thousand peso a month (. $350.00 ) or rent a 2 bedroom apartment for 8-10 peso a month. In dumaguete! Don’t be in a hurry to buy your future wife a house remember foreigners can’t own anything but a condo ! And when she gets tired of you she calls the cops and gets you kicked out of the house you just bought in her name.
I do understand and appreciate most of the arguments posed for the pros and cons both for renting and for owning.
To distillate it all, one easily comes to the conclusion that there is no universal right or wrong position but it all depends 100% on your personal circumstances. However, there has been quite significant changes in the world since this thread started particularly with respect to the tenuous and increasing risks in the world’s economies and in this regard one may wish to consider its effect on the Philippines and therefore your personal investment options.
I believe that the economies of the developed countries will very soon collapse big time to an extent that will be totally unprecedented and this may well mean the crash of their respective currencies especially the US dollar and the bankruptcy or closure of banks.
The US$ to which most currencies are tied is poised to lose its status as the world’s reserve currency; there are now many moves in play to make this happen very quickly especially with the West prodding the Russian Bear and the Chinese Dragon. When this world’s economic collapse does happen, not if it happens, expats will immediately be in for a shocker as their foreign money may then yield only a fraction of the pesos it now commands. But that may not be our main worry because, even worse, it is expected in such a scenario that the banking system worldwide would grind to a halt as banks collapse.
The issuance of pension cheques and transfers would not be possible without a functioning banking system. All deposits in all banks everywhere may be lost. I invite you to google ”bail in’ and you will better understand the plans behind the curtains. This policy was first experimented in Cyprus with much success and many countries have since adopted it. This IMF initiative gives banks the right to confiscate depositors money and declare such as their own assets should it become insolvent. Countries who have approved this new policy includes USA, Canada, England, Australia, NZ, Switzerland and most European countries. I do not know if PI had signed in. All were done under the radar with very minimal mention in the main media.
I digressed, so back to the main point! I myself plan to move to PI very soon and this matter of renting and purchasing has occupied my thinking for sometime, but with the ever increasingly high probability of the stuff hitting the fan, I am now thinking that it is a no brainer to park my money in real estate even with all the limitations on foreign ownership. This of course will only make sense if I were to place ample safeguards, anticipating that I may one day be made to walk the plank by my dear and for the time being, most trusted Filipina, who does not fail to remind me daily that she is mine forever. I love her dearly but…. I have been burnt many times before and it is getting a bit monotonous for me!
So what does a renter do if this scenario should unfold? With no pension cheques and no access to your money in the bank to satisfy the landlord, and for one as myself who is too old to find a job, one could be in a real bind.
In summary, I think that in normal stable times, which we have enjoyed for many decades, renting, with the obvious many advantages is a no-brainer but one needs to think that in a brutal long cycle economic shift, everything goes out of the window and you now have a new situation requiring new thinking and new approaches. For such ‘black swan’ events less than 2% of the population would have prepared and those who follow the conventional wisdom, the 98%, will all have the consolation of suffering the misery together. I rather give up the short term benefit or gain in renting for the insurance that I and my sweetheart and kids are not put out to the street joining millions of others.
Unfortunately in PI there are virtually no other options to invest in good tangible assets such as gold and silver, for which I understand the government is not very accommodating. I invite others to perhaps share their thoughts if they are aware of any such options.
I did not start out to be this long-winded and to be boring to some, but I wanted to alert my expat friends to think bit outside the box to factor in the changing dynamics of the world.
Not so fast. When the word’s economies collapse, the banking system worldwide grinds to a halt, and the banks stop forwarding expats’ pensions so that they can pay their rent, and the supposedly non-functioning banks still manage to confiscate depositors money with the IMF’s blessings? When that happens, the hell with paying rent. I think there will be anarchy on the streets.
Well, John, anarchy will indeed be a possibility. The issue is the severity and the timing.
If I were a landlord in such an event and at some point in time should I sense that the collapse is irretrievable and that it would be a long term problem because of the sheer immensity and complications of this international problem, I would not hesitate to evict my tenant and avail myself of the many options open to me. I may wish to move in myself or move my adult children and their families in or even barter the accommodation for food. I certainly will be ahead over not getting any rent at all.
Also, with anarchy, landlords would not have to observe any tenant rights that may exist and could with the help of a few locals put us out on the street. By then the color of our skin and our ethnicity would no longer carry any equity as we are now all brought down to the same common denominator, poverty.
I also have my reservations about the extent of the anarchy and civil disorder to expect in a collapse as the majority of the population are already living under or close to the poverty line and there is not much further down to go. Also, the people have had to continually and ceaselessly dealt with major life threatening disasters in earthquakes, typhoons, landslides and tsunamis and have become extraordinarily resilient to be able to recover each time, often without much of government help. In the scale of severity a monetary collapse would not even rank close to such disasters where often entire communities are devastated and lives lost.
The poor knows how to survive in grave hardship and will be better equipped to be innovative in survival. So who will be more likely to march on the streets? The middle class and the rich who would have lost everything and who do not have any survival skills.
So the moral of the story if you have no plans to purchase? Be nice to your poor in-laws because one day you may have to move into their shack!
I must tell you that the scenarios which I have described are now on a very fast track to fruition and can escalate any time now, I urge you to not be led by what you see or read on your main stream media whether in PI or in North America.
With the tenuous situation now developing the news have been deliberately suppressed so as to protect the instigators and also to not create panic among the people.
I just came off reading an article from the site, aptly named, ‘The Economic Collapse’ which today featured an article which stated that 5 of the major banks in the US each have at a minimum of over 40 Trillion dollars in derivative exposure. Their assets are just a few billions but they are allowed to leverage without any limits. Among them the JP Morgan Chase has a $67 Trillion exposure. Now this may not alarm you until you consider that the entire GDP of the USA is about $15 Trillion. Other overseas banks are also in the mess with the big German Deutsche Bank with a $75 Trillion exposure. Have a read! There are other creditable sites such as ‘Silver Doctors’ and ‘King News’, ‘JS MIneset’ etc. I do not know if I am allowed to name other sites in this forum but if not, I would invite Bob to delete them.
Most of the conflicts you mentioned have an economic component as the underlying motive. Iraq and Libya were taken down by the US when Saddam and Gadafi made the mistake to trade their oil outside the US dollar. Syria was the next target because Assad did not cooperate with Quatar and Saudi Arabia to have their gas line traverse his country but preferred rather to have an arrangement with Iran and Russia. The South China conflict with China is all about the grabbing of territories rich in oil. Now you have the economic blow-back with the Ukraine-Russia crisis all centered on an economic war with embargoes and confiscations and possibly shutting down the gas supply to Europe,
I believe that in these times everyone ought to make the effort to read widely and dig hard and deep to find out what is happening and not hold too tenaciously to any one set of idea as the world is changing so fast and so are the dynamics. Clinging stubbornly to one side of an issue without due consideration for the other does not bring any progress. As the saying goes, “for a man with a hammer in his hand, a nail is always the solution to every problem”.
With Nostradamus’ prophecies, their interpretation can only be clearly determined after the event unfortunately.
I do not think that the imperative of prepping in PI is as urgent as if you lived in the developed countries for many reasons but that discussion is for another day. I do not know who Palawan Bob is but he sure sounds like someone who has seen the light.
Pardon the grammar and spelling mistakes, I am rushing this!
Peace my friend!
No Bob, I am a first timer.
Just me Zaccheus atop the mango tree viewing the proceedings below!
“I urge you to not be led by what you see or read on your main stream media…”
With all the peripheral issues aside, wouldn’t you admit, though, that this same advice could be applied not just to me, but to YOU, as well? 🙂
Thanks John, I will have to be very careful! Do you happen to know if the kapres and aswangs prefer to rent or purchase? I promise that if they do get their claws on me I would fetch the albularyo to evict them!
Have a bless day!
Palawan Bob? Is that you? 😉
Interesting insight, Zaccheus. What I would like to say is, if you prefer buying over renting, just do it. But, perhaps you could use other existing scenarios out there to support your position that are more likely to happen in the immediate future, instead of a hypothetical (hearsay?) worldwide economic melt-down that may or may not happen in your lifetime. There is no point in worrying about it if you’re no longer around if and when that eventuality occurs, is there?
Understand that i am not dismissing the possibility of another worldwide chaos from happening. Anything is possible. But, if you look around you, the triggers for the worldwide chaos I speak of, if and when it comes to fruition, would seem to be territory, religion and ideology, but not an economic collapse of the world’s leading economies.
In the Russia – Ukraine dispute, it’s all about territory. In Syria and Iraq, vis-a-vis ISIS/ISIL, it’s religion and ideology. Throw in the complex web of international alliances into the mix among Iran, Israel, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, the U.S., NATO, China, South Korea and North Korea, and, for good measure, the South China Sea dispute among China and ASEAN countries, the Israel – Palestinian conflict, indeed, you have a recipe for a possible world-wide chaos, if you will. This is happening now, not in some far-off unknown future. Economy is not in the equation.
On the other hand, your economic collapse is so mind-boggling in theory to contemplate, which leads me to wonder if such an event had a precedence in history. If there is no precedence, could Nostradamus help? 🙂
if you could provide the appropriate quotes from Nostradamus’ quatrains describing such impending gloom that will befall this planet, and WHEN this event is supposed to occur, according to Nostradamus, I will switch over to your and Palawan Bob’s camp and start building my own doomsday bunker post-haste. 🙂
Absolutely, I do not allow myself to be led by main stream media and that is why I also read creditable sources in the alternate media so that I may then have a more balance view and be better equipped to then determine who is selling the BS.
Look, I am not trying to ram any of my views down anyone’s throat, I am merely providing another prospective so that others may explore. I can assure you I do not get any commissions or royalties if you decide to agree with me.
As far as I know, they come and go as they please, Zaccheus. Some nights they are atop a mango tree, the next night, they might be on a balete tree. Because of the transitory nature of their domiciling habits, rent or buy is out of the question.
Here’s a tip. If you should find yourself passing under a balete tree at night in rural Philippines, remember to utter the following phrase as humble as you can, “Tabi tabi po”, or, if you are in Ilocandia, you say, “Bari-bari”. 🙂
But, you seem to have already decided that your “creditable sources in the alternate media” is more credible than mainstream, judging from the way you have presented your viewpoint on this issue.
Another thing, to put your mind at ease, I am not close-minded on this thing as you may think I am. Let’s revisit what I said:
” Understand that i am not dismissing the possibility of another worldwide chaos from happening. Anything is possible.”
The proclivity towards such transitory behavior can be easily stemmed by merely demanding upfront the first and last months’ deposit!
I already have a tough time dealing with the intricacies of real estate in this world and now I am being led to delve into its spiritual realm- totally out of my depth!
Take care John!!
Zaccheus, I would be very careful about spending time atop mango trees in the Philippines. I hear kapres and aswangs inhabit those trees, and they would not take kindly to foreigners trespassing in their homes. If you should develop some kind of unexplained illness, do see an albularyo immediately, hear? 🙂
Two significant words I failed to include in my post above: “finality” and “passionately”, in bold, i.e.,
“But, you seem to have already decided with FINALITY that your “creditable sources in the alternate media” is more credible than mainstream, judging from the way you have presented your viewpoint PASSIONATELY on this issue.
Another thing, to put your mind at ease, I am not close-minded on this thing as you may think I am. Let’s revisit what I said:
” Understand that i am not dismissing the possibility of another worldwide chaos from happening. Anything is possible.””
With regard to your submission on ‘FINALITY’ and ‘PASSIONATELY’, the reply button disappeared so I am starting anew.
When one looks at two sides of an issue and with measured reasoning arrives at a FINAL conclusion as to the veracity of one side, one is exhibiting normal human behavior much as when your doctor gives you a dire diagnosis and you chose to get a second opinion from another doctor. If you then are still confused, you seek the opinion of a third or fourth doctor because after all. the course of action you choose would very well seriously affect your very life.
Once you have assessed the situation and realize without a shadow of a doubt from overwhelming evidence that your first doctor was totally wrong then what do you do? You would naturally embrace what you perceive to be the better option and decisively and passionately defend it and should you then be aware of other people who face the same dilemma, would you not out of pure compassion and charity not share your experience with them. That is exactly what I am doing!
Obviously if I am totally convinced that I am correct, I will passionately defend it. You know John, main stream thinkers do not need to defend their position because the majority are already on board like sheep or as they now say ‘sheeple’ because breaking out of the status quo is hard work requiring one to think, and one is more often than not treated with ridicule and contempt. Once you dare to think differently you suddenly are looked upon as a black sheep, a paranoid or a conspiracy theorist with a few loose screws in the noggins and that is precisely why the minority thinker needs to muster up unwavering passion even to remain sane.
I have lived long enough to recognize that with many issues the majority is often wrong, sometimes dead wrong, because most people by human nature, gravitate towards the easiest option in any undertaking and then more and more people pile on after, since there is this lazy belief that if everyone is doing it then it must be right and soon what has started out as a premise is elevated to be a fact. Entire nations have collapsed as a result of such unbridled herd instincts.
There is a fable about a kingdom far away, in which the enemy came one night and poisoned its wells and the people who drank of the water all became mad but this was not noticed by the people themselves because they all behaved in the same way except for the King who had his own private well. Soon the people began to think among themselves that the King was acting weird and and that he was going mad so they conspired to overthrow him. The King got wind of it and reasoned that in the interest of expediency that he should drink of the same water and become like them. Of course, everyone lived happily ever after! Not much different from the Jim Jones adherents in Guyana drinking the Kool-Aid because they were herded into thinking that it was the right thing to do, abdicating their own sense of reasoning.
I refuse to drink the KoolAid and will passionately place my opinions before others and allow them to make their decisions because as a practicing Christian it is my responsibility to help others!
Peace!
I applaud you for making your opinions known so that others may form their opinions based on your own. LOL
OK, Zaccheus, you made your point. This will be my last post on this subject. Because of the impending ecoomic doom, expats would be better off buying than renting, correct?
John, even after the significant effort I have given to carefully and clearly outline my reasoning and to demonstrate to you over and over again that we all need to be opened to both sides of ANY argument, not only on real estate, you still insist on childish sarcasm. You are ridiculing me for my point of view yet you try to foist yours on me. I had initially thought that you would be up to a challenging intellectual exercise but this is not the first time I have been wrong! This will be my very last interaction with you.
I wish you the best and trust you will always make the right decision in life’s journey!
Peace my friend!
Zaccheus, you’re too serious, man! I’m sorry if I offended you, but what you mistook for sarcasm and ridicule really was my attempt at keeping our conversation light-hearted. I was hoping that you would pick up on it and inject some humor of your own to head off any kind of hard feelings between us, but I was wrong. Ngayon, nag-tampo ka na tuloy. Be that as it may, I enjoyed reading your long stories and your insights, while learning about you, the person, in the process. I wish you good night with all my respect.
In 2007, we visited my wife’s relatives in Negros Occidental. We ended up buying a small lot and house for
150000 pesos($6000). I got it so that her parents would have a place to raise pigs and let relatives live
there. My parents back home thought I made a big mistake. The house is still there and it is something that
my wife owns. I hope to never live there but it would be good enough for my in-laws. If I did move to
Philippines, it would be in her hometown near Bacolod.
I think that’s sound advice Bob. Well thought out for sure.
Thanks, Charlie. Americans are very “trained” and “conditioned” that you must own your own home, and anything else is financial foolishness. It isn’t always the case, though. In some instances it makes more sense to rent, at least for a period of time. It’s all a personal choice, though. No one answer is right for everybody.
Very good advice Bob, especially for the newbie. We know of some who have “fallen in love” on the internet and buy a house for their girlfriends, thinking that they’ll retire in the Philippines with all of their creature comforts taken care of. Some of these relationships don’t last very long after the gf has a house and lot! There are situations where buying make sense, but even then one will find that foreigners can’t own or control Philippine property per the Philippine constitution. I stayed with friends and rented for the first decade I was in Cebu. My first house was a simple Nipa that I gave to a family I was sponsoring at the time. Since married (11 years) we built our own house (on wife’s property) and host her family in it as well. I’m very happy with the arrangement, but each must decide what is best for them.
Great advice Ron. Renting also gives one the opportunity to see if they actually like the island they are on. Renting also allows one to see what they would do differently if they owned a house.
Rusty Bowers
That is so true, Ron McCarthy. When you fall in love, sometimes your thinking is not focused as it should be. You are so right!
Good points, Rusty and all true.
When I first came to the Philippines to meet my penpal we took a walk hand in hand down the road from her parents house. ( 18 years ago ), I came upon this spot of land with the most beautiful view and I knew right then and there this is the spot I will build my retirement home. There was a very small hollow block house standing there. That house is in the middle of our new house we never tore it down just made it into a living room. I guess what I am trying to say, some people look and look and look and never find that special spot they would like to spend their last days in. I am so thankful to GOD that I found mine. Yes the land is in my wife’s name but on the title it also says Married to Mr. Budrick …………. I have a friend right now who is going through an annulment. They had bought a house together. His name is on the title just as mine is. The Judge has ruled he will get half of the sale of the property. Now that’s fair yes? If you come here to marry and you go into this marriage with thoughts of it breaking up then why get married in the first place? You must always plan things as husband and wife and if it does not work out maybe you just did not try hard enough.
I am glad it worked out for you, Budrick. Feyma and I have been married for 24+ years now. We will never break up. But, my thoughts about house ownership here are not about the stability of the marriage, more about the economics, the ability to move around, and the fact that it can be very hard to sell a nice house here. Of course, I do not argue that my thoughts apply to others. No, it is a personal choice that we all have to make individually.
They say man was given enough blood to supply his brain and his penis. Just not enough blood to supply both at the same time.
I understand BOB my point was just that when I found my little piece of Heaven here on earth I knew it would be the last place I would own.
Ha ha.. I think you are correct!
Yep! And, I am very happy for you! 🙂
Thanks Bob
You’re welcome, Charlie. Hope you have a great day today!
Definitely agree with your article. One should rent for at least a few years before buying. Nice writeup!
Thanks, Rease. I hope you are doing well! I just think that renting, at least for a while, is the prudent way to go for most people.
All is well here man, just busy busy busy 😉 Hope you have a great weekend. Have a new development coming with the hands. If it comes about, I’ll have to backbrief you….
Nice article write up. In our case we will end up building instead of renting. Luckily we will live with my mother in law rent free while we build.
Thanks, Rease! Good luck! Have a great weekend.
I hope it all works out for you, Gary. I know a lot of people who have gone through a lot of misery because of moving, but you may come out a lucky one! I do hope that happens. Good luck.
next blog should be: Buy vs. Build 🙂
Hi Trauffer – That is not something that I am super interested in, but would you like to write a guest article on the topic?
That was the first time I listen to your podcast. Good job! It came across very professional with good advice.
No free rent in the PH.
I like your opinion Bob.
From what I have read, the formulas that make owning a home here in the US, viable, dont coincide with doing it there , especially when rent is so much cheaper than here in US. Plus all the unknowns you mention, like roosters for example, almost everywhere I have slept there, I have been awoken by roosters crowing or dogs barking all night long, as is the norm there, and to have to live next to someone that makes it impossible to sleep, and being stuck there indefinitely because you own the home would not be good, to say the least.
Ha ha. For sure.
Thank you so much for those kind words, Robert!
I would estimate that more than half of the foreigners who move here and say they will never go back do actually end up leaving. 🙂
In my case there will be. No rent just utilities.
Hi John – Interesting about the 2% ratio. It is nowhere near that here in Davao. But, even in that case, it is still better, in my view, to rent for a while before buying. Like you say, the flexibility and ability to make adjustment is a huge benefit!
In the USA for most of my life I have owned my own house but from all I have read and in this case heard ( your podcast ) now and in the past I would have to fully agree with you Bob, especially for someone coming to live, at least at first. I remember reading your experiences a few years ago about the call center.
In looking at many pics and adds of house for sale in The Philippines many of them do not show you what is on each side of the house or property that is up for sale or how close the next house may be. On my visits I have seen some houses so close to each other you might not even be able to walk between them.
The ” House and Lot ” thing is something I never heard of in the USA although it could exist. Houses built on someone elses property. I sure would not want to buy something like that LOL . I am well under the impression that the entire real estate landscape in The Philippines can be tricky compared to the USA. I fully agree renting at least at first while looking and exploring to buy if someone really wants to buy and in the mean time approach buying with great caution.
I concur, rent before buying, if ever. Living in Cebu, the rent to ownership is approaching 2%, but that still does not bother me. Renting is flexible and you can adjust to the situation around you. I am only in my second year of renting, in my second place, and I already know I will be looking for a new place next year. Cebu real estate seems to be in a bubble at this time. If you invested in Cebu 10-15 years ago you would have done extremely well, but I do not see that now. But everyone’s situation is different…
Hi Bob, I agree with you 100% about renting rather than buying, I am in my second year of renting and I´m looking for another house or large condo, It´s only 2 of us living in a large 2 storey house with 4 bedrooms and 6??? bathrooms. I think the owner wanted to use it as a dorm but it stayed empty for a year, we rented it for 15,000 + utilities. The rent is ok and I don´t mind the roosters crowing or dogs barking, I sleep well anyway, Recently the owner next door rented his property to a company that makes signs and billboards, so at times during the day the noise from their power tools is unbearable can´t even hear the TV or radio when it is at it´s worst.. I never complained once, and the workers next door are friendly but I am thankful that I didn´t buy this house seeing what I have to deal with on a daily basis, and it wasn´t like that when I moved in over a year ago.
You are right, I also never heard the term “house and lot” until coming to the Philippines. It is what I am used to hearing now, though.
Thanks, Bob!
Hi Bill. Thanks for listening and for commenting! I fully agree with you regarding the formulas on whether they make sense or not. Now, some people just feel more comfortable owning, and that is their choice, no problem on that. But, other people think it is foolish to rent. Fact is, that financially, given the numbers it is cheaper to rent here. It’s all a matter of personal preference, though.
Bob,
You have a nice presentation and a good voice, could be on the radio.
Hi Bob,
My husband and son and I lived and rented by choice in my small hometown City of Providence, Rhode Island for several years, and were completely content doing that.
In 2007 while still living mostly living in the US, we built a house on my husband’s family land that was left to him by his parents which we then made into a walled in family compound. The dollar was strong then, and we really had a happy result. Over time while living part time in the US and part of the time in Cebu province, we sought out a piece of land near the ocean to build another house. We got lucky and found a piece of land to buy. It took about three years to finish, and we live here permanently in this ocean side house and also spend time at our first house about 15 minute drive away in a neighboring town.
My husband and I met in his town in Cebu when I worked as a US Peace Corps volunteer for two years, and later married and lived in the US, but we had a period of living and being familiar with family, neighbors and of life in the province of Cebu. I had traveled and spent time in other regions of the Philippines, and loved Cebu the best. My husband loves his hometown island of Cebu.
I do agree with you and others though, that unless you have some experience with the country and the place you plan to buy or build on, it can be a gamble to make a permanent decision to buy or build a house without renting first.
As mentioned before, there are so many variables that should be considered or experienced before making any big decisions Here are some that I can think of:
Are you on pretty solid ground with your wife or partner?
What kind of savings or income or pension do you hope to live on?
Do you think that you will like living in the Philippines long term?
Where do you want or plan to settle? In a big city? A small city? A subdivision? A rural or very rural place?
What region of the Philippines are you drawn to and why?
How is your overall health, and will being near doctors’ offices or nearby hospital setting be important for you and your family?
Do you plan or desire to live near or with your spouse’s family?
Do you have enough patience or a sense of humor, and think that you can learn to compromise when need be?
Renting will give you time to work out many of these concerns without making possible costly mistakes.
We chose to build though, because we loved Cebu, and felt that it was a good fit for us. The thrill of designing and planning one then two houses took up a lot of our time and money, but gave us a lot of pleasure and satisfaction. It was all part of our dream of a new adventure living and owning in a faraway but still familiar place.
Even though we thought that our variables were reasonably met, when we finally moved permanently into our first house, as much as we still love our family and neighbors, we are so grateful to have the ocean side house to live in. Living around family and nearby neighbors is more fun part time.
Living in my husband’s family’s pocket could get a little old for us sometimes. Also, living near the ocean turned out to be more of a preference for us, so we were fortunate to have a choice to do that the second time around.
Surrounded by ocean and cliffs on three sides, and with one small neighbor family over the fence next store.
It has proved to be our private refuge that family only occasionally visits. We love living in the province, but still know that we can drive or take a bus to the city if we want to. We love gardening and ocean side life, and love to decorate and design our indoor and outdoor space. Three dogs are good friends and guardians for us.
Of course there is never going to be a perfect answer for any of us concerning variables, and there are no sure things for any of us in life, but a little experience can go a long way in the long run I think.
Buying or building has been our personal preference, but it is not a necessary choice for everyone, and it is only a viable choice after some” testing of the waters” .
I hope my insights will add to the overall thoughts here.
Queenie
rent
Rent by all means at first.
I thought that a house on my own lot, in the province, would be best.
But now after looking at the different variables like the kid’s needing to go to private schools, the wife enjoy window shopping at the malls, and maybe someday needing to be near the hospitals for medical care. I will probably be more in the 80-20 rule that I will have a house to rent in the city that I spend 80 percent of my time, and a small house for holidays to spend with my wife’s family. And if I fall on hard times I can always stay at my holiday home. Between moves or permanently if I need to. Just got to get used to the crowing of the neighbors roosters.
Hi Queenie – Well, you certainly have a boatload of information there! You have some really good questions to ask yourself in making such a decision.
I don’t really have a problem with your decision to buy. It is, after all, YOUR decision. And, you were here doing Peace Corp work before you built/bought, so you knew the country and knew the area. I think you did the right thing.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Queenie.
There you go, Richie! Exactly what I am talking about. You don’t ever know for sure what kind of annoyance is going to pop up. Heavy power tool use next door? If you are renting, you are free to move. If you owned the place… you are stuck!
Australians are made to feel as if buying a house is mandatory, even though the prices are mind bending insane! Rent for a while, see what you like.
Exact same as the American mentality, Victor.
Sad part being when unemployment spikes and these same people are now over there heads in debt! Better off moving to Davao city and living the good life!
Short, sweet and right to the point, Bryon! 🙂 Thanks for stopping by!
Perfect example of my reasoning, James. It does sound like you have everything planned out nicely.
The decision to Rent or Buy particularly here in the Philippines depends on circumstances, needs and financial status in my mind.
By circumstances I mean are you retired and wishing to live here permanently or just live here for a short while with a mind to returning back to your country of origin or somewhere else. Needs are, do you wish to establish a permanent place for the sake of for example children’s schooling or medical facilities or establishing a business with accommodation attached or do you require to move around for business reasons or just not sure of where you want to settle. Financial circumstances, do you wish to commit a lump of money cash or take on a loan in order to purchase if you have not say sold a property before coming here to stay.
Most of the examples have been covered so the final decision to Rent or Buy is purely a personal choice.
Our own decision which was by no means done in any kind of rush was to build on a lot purchased some 20 years before hand. I do fully understand the law of the land that I cannot ordinarily own land here so in no way was I going to be hoodwinked or otherwise. By deciding to build we had our own choice of design, materials and builder as well as control over total spend. Whilst buildings here in the tropics are only as good as the materials used and the regular maintenance carried out and does not appreciate in value to a great extent if anything however land does and its here where the asset value lies. In our case had we rented a property had there been one available as we live in a small town To have got something of a decent standard like our build would have cost somewhere between 15/20 K per month based on rental prices in a neighboring city and worked out an average over the 10 years since building. I must add in the last 10 years and since the road from the city to our town is very good, the city is creeping closer as land becomes scarce. In summary in our experience to build was the correct choice as 10 years later the saving on rent has paid for the build. Since there is 10 years age difference between my wife and I, should I go first she has a roof over her head bought and paid for. One thing I have noticed here in the Philippines having a property/land affords one much easier access to a Bank Loan as assets are what are used here for security much more than salaries or general income.
When you weigh up the pros and cons of Rent/Build or Buy one thing is for sure whatever you decide make sure you can afford the loss should the worst case scenario ever happen.
Something I have seen, many expats who never planned to go back home to their home country. End up going back home. A few of them have been in the Philippines for over 5 years.
That is pretty surprising when this happens, because I thought that after a few years they would have gotten the itch to go home completely scratched. But it happens.
Some of these expats have extensive investments in the Philippines with homes and farms. Maybe it is me but if I had an investment I would like to keep a watch on it, in person.
If they rented for the time they were living in the Philippines, maybe they would have that investments still in the bank, or somewhere else.
But yes it is a personal choice.
We have a house 4 rent
Hi Jim – I suppose that medical need would be the only thing I can think of that I would borrow money for, and only if really needed. Living debt free is a very peaceful existence that I value greatly.
Hi Bob, like you we owe no one anything but I know others who borrow to purchase a car or extend their current property or even have to borrow to cove entire or part medical bills. It’s back to personal circumstances and not everyone makes financial planning a priority before they come to live here.
We are fine here in the Bukid Bob, regards to Feyma and family.
Regards.
Jim.
I am in absolute full agreement with you when you say it comes down to personal choice. Other points, like easier to get bank loans? Personally, I owe not a centavo to anybody, and I like it that way, so it is of no concern to me.
Nice to hear from you, Jim, you have been quiet. Best wishes to you and the family.
I had to raise a bit of an objection to the eroneous statement in the article about how the high end houses hardly increase in value as if they dont have anywhere to go but down in terms of price.
Year 2010 my sister was offered by her neighbor in Ayala ALabang their house for sale, an 800 sqm property with an old house for only 9 million pesos. Now the said property has increaed in value to 60 million and that is for the land alone.
Im sorry but sometimes reality does have a way of throwing curveballs at our assumptions.
As you said your bank is offering you interest at 7 percent a year ….
But how does that compare to a property that increased its value more than 6x in 5 years hmm?
I am sorry, Bong… P9M up to P60M? I think somebody is dreaming. A house is only worth what somebody will pay, and if it didn’t sell for P9m when offered, then there is no reason for it to go to P60M.
Paul, just about everything you said in this post is wrong. Have you ever been to the Philippines before?
In regards to the original post, has anything changed in terms of attitudes? I have read that the US military has been invited back (at least on a rotational basis), and more training exercises have been conducted.
Or, is it just about whining American tourists?
Hi Karina – By reading your writing (both comments) it is clear to me that you are an intelligent girl. Kudos to you for that. I would only encourage you to be more open to your own country instead of being closed minded. I understand that some of what you have witnessed and experienced during your life here set your opinion, and it may be somewhat inflexible. But, what your country badly needs, in my view, is people like you who have witnessed the bad, then through life experience have come to realize how things could be improved. The next step is big, but something that few Filipinos do… SPEAK UP! Spread the word that things can change. If nobody complains, and takes action, nothing will ever change. If only foreigners like me speak up, well, that won’t work, because of several reasons. Firstly, there are too few of us to make a difference. Secondly, it is not really our place to force change here, because it is not our country, and many local people resent it if we really speak our minds. It is people like you who can make the changes that will lead to improved conditions and better lives for Filipinos. You are smart, and obviously not afraid to speak up. The last key to the puzzle is that someday you have to return and put your voice into action!
Excellent article, very informative and from actual experience so I for one will not be buying there now. Be great to own with western head on perhaps but the liquidity in the PI property market is not like in the west. More importantly who wants any large monies in reality stuck in what is in essence still a 3rd world country. Bluntly the market is not especially pro foreigner, let’s be honest and I doubt that will change any time soon, pity really….
I feel the same, Lance. I think it is more wise to rent, at least for some time until you have decided this is the really the place for you, and you have come to understand how things work here.
Your points make perfect sense. If I could rent a 20 million peso house for under 38,000, I would be all over that. Makes perfect financial sense. Your situation may not be the norm. I’m renting a pad worth 5.2 million for 36000/mth. At those numbers, it’s worth looking into purchasing methinks.
I have rented a dozen homes in the Philippines. While the numbers differed, the percentages were pretty consistent. I find it crazy to purchase given the numbers.
A big reason for me to rent instead of buy in the Philippines, is that I can deduct mortgage interest and property taxes for my home in the U.S. on my federal and state tax returns. I cannot do this for a home I own in the Philippines. So, it makes sense for me to own a home in the U.S., for tax purposes. If it is a rental property I can also deduct repairs and upgrades from my taxes. Not so for property owned in the Philippines.
I am renting a house right now in Ormoc City. It is in Linao which is like an 8 minute scooter ride or 12 minute tricycle ride from the city.
We just started renting about 2 weeks ago. The place is nice, it has a big living room, a nice kitchen, a nice bathroom (the only problem is the shower is not heated lol), and a bedroom with an air-conditioner. We are on the ground floor.
There are renters above us, but we have yet to hear them make any noise.
It is a 4 apartment complex and I think it was built about a year or 2 ago. It was semi furnished with a bed, tv in the living room, two couches, a fridge, and a dining room table and a coffee table. We bought curtains and sheets and a broom and cleaning supplies. We also had to fill the propane tank.
We are paying 8500 pesos per month and there was a 5000 pesos deposit required. That is all we had to do. We will also have to pay electricity or they will take it out of the deposit, I am not sure lol.
We did not have to sign any papers and overall it has been great so far!
It was an incredibly easy process.
Glad things have worked out for you! Good luck!
Your computation about owning vs renting sure sound in favor of renting. But think of your situation this way. Paying that much say up to 10 years would mean that the house you are living into will be yours fully. And this could be added as one of your investment and if you want to move away you could sell the place or have it rented.
Two replies…
One…
If I took the same capital and invested it, I would have a big wad of money all of these years later instead of a house that might not be very sellable.
Second…
Right now, I am preparing to move back to the USA. I am not saddled with a house that may take years to sell.
I am so happy with the decision I made to rent all of these years.
Your experience may be different, but I am very happy with my decision.